Mach 1 from the Forest ( with Pics )

[Hawk 1]

To follow up on an earlier thread. My brother and I went out to evaluate a 1970 Mustang Mach 1 ( M code, shaker, 4 spd ) car that has not been operating for the last 14 years and sitting of the foothills of California. All the pieces are there for a restoration however, we wanted to jack up the car to get a better look at the rust damage. This picture shows the car from the side with the door open.

We probed and tested the car and could not find any areas were the rust had broken through except the battery tray. This picture shows the front suspension with rusted pieces. I did not know that a 1970 Mach 1 could have front drum brakes.

There was rust in the trunk but it all was surface rust. Unfortunately I can't post and more pictures as I have a two picture limit. The car would require a total restoration with large concern being how to deal with the surface rust. Your feedback concerning restoring a car in this condition would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Hawk 1

 

[mfp4073]

how much did they want for it again?

 

[bnickel]

we rally need pics of the floors before we can give you a price estimate. from the looks of it though, i wouldn't pay 6 grand for it.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Hey cool, the jack didn't go through the torq box! Now you really need to check the cowl. The car would obviously have to be completely gutted to avoid missing any hidden cancer issues. At that point you have a few options: acid dipping the whole chassis, bead blasting on a rotisserie, wire brushing by hand on a rotisserie. (this is all assuming the frame can withstand a rotisserie restoration).

Try Cardomain.com (or various others) for free picture hosting.

 

[lauras70mach1]

Is it complete? Shaker's intact, all the rocker trim is there, dash, etc.?

 

[67coupestang]

werent drums part of some drag racing option? lower rolling resistance than disks or something like that...

 

[Hawk 1]

Thanks for the replies. With the limitations on the number of pictures I am not sure how I can add the pictures of the floors? The price hasn't been set in stone with all the parts being there ( shaker, 4 speed, mach 1 trim, in dash tach etc.) I hear that a previous owner drag raced the car and maybe they added the drum brakes. I have a Marti report coming so maybe that will tell me if it was standard. Thanks again for the replies.

Hawk1

 

[302 coupe]

drum brakes were standard equip on Machs, they are not part of some mythical drag racing kit. Disc brakes were otional on small block Machs, and I believe they were standard on big block cars. Standard equip on Machs in 1970 was a 351C 2 barrel, 3speed stick or FMX auto, 4 wheel drum brakes, and 9" rear (non-locking) with 28 spline axles and either 2.79 or 3.00 gears. Nothing special for standard equipment. Don't assume that just because its a Mach it has all kinds of special equipment. You need to fully decode the car to get an idea of its value, whxch the Marti report would handle. Don't make an offer until you find out what it is supposed to have, and also what parts are still intact.

 

[lauras70mach1]

drum brakes were standard equip on Machs, they are not part of some mythical drag racing kit. Disc brakes were otional on small block Machs, and I believe they were standard on big block cars. Standard equip on Machs in 1970 was a 351C 2 barrel, 3speed stick or FMX auto, 4 wheel drum brakes, and 9" rear (non-locking) with 28 spline axles and either 2.79 or 3.00 gears. Nothing special for standard equipment. Don't assume that just because its a Mach it has all kinds of special equipment. You need to fully decode the car to get an idea of its value, whxch the Marti report would handle. Don't make an offer until you find out what it is supposed to have, and also what parts are still intact.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you got a 351 2v in 1970 couldn't it have been either a 351C or 351W?

Discs are listed as an option on the Marti reprot for my '70 Mach 1.

 

[pabear89]

As too the W or C motors it could be at what plant it was assembled,
and what 351 was available to them.

The marti report is your best bet to know what it's came with.

Not for the facts....the 69 and 70 are on the high end of the list for parts, not enough repo parts are avaialble yet so some are on the exspensive side compared to other years. A draw back to having one of the sleekbodys.

PB

 

[302 coupe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you got a 351 2v in 1970 couldn't it have been either a 351C or 351W?

Discs are listed as an option on the Marti reprot for my '70 Mach 1.

In 70, chances are you got a cleveland, but there were some windsors installed.

 

[Hawk 1]

Good info 302 Coupe. With this being a M code car this would be the 351c. As far as dealing with the rust I had envisioned wire brushing with hand and then chemically treating the affected areas. I am not sure how a rotisserie effort could be done. Additional details there would be appreciated. Also I have extra pictures of the floor board areas. How can I post them when I have two picture limit? Thanks again for your replies.

Thanks,

Hawk1

 

[PJx5x]

www.imageshack.us

 

[johnsstang04]

Well.. I would pay 6k for it. Maybe I have too much money. These cars are bringing insane prices, and they actually seem to be worth more (for what you're getting) in junk condition then restored. If I were you I'd put the car on ebay before I started restoring it.. see what you get.

Also, if you plan on "wire brushing with hand and then chemically treating the affected areas," then you'll spend about six years and twice the amount it would cost to dip or blast the car.

Looks like you found a nice project... good luck with it

 

[Platonic Solid]

Good info 302 Coupe. With this being a M code car this would be the 351c.

In your original thread, you stated the current owner had replaced the engine. So what's actually in there may have little to do with what it came with.

As far as dealing with the rust I had envisioned wire brushing with hand and then chemically treating the affected areas. I am not sure how a rotisserie effort could be done. Additional details there would be appreciated.

Here's one of many available: (no endorsement implied)
http://www.uscartool.com/rotisserie/images/index.html

Though these cars are easy to disassemble, I have to note that proper disassembly (so that you’ll have a fighting chance of putting it back together) is quite time (and space) consuming. You need to take lots of digital pictures of every step and bag and label the fasteners and components accordingly.

As an example of what often happens with these types of projects, I've had my 73 Mach1 for 3 years now. I purchased it with minimal rust from Califirnia (thus I don't need to do a complete disassembly restoration), yet I still had to replace the tail-light panel and repair rear window channel rust. My original intention was to disassemble all the external body parts and paint them independently (I've done this before). 3 years later (life happens) and I find I just haven't made the time committment to finish it, so I'll be paying a professional painter about $6,000 to strip the exterior and repaint it.

I’ll restate my earlier comment also: You need to check the condition of the cowl. That’s the one area that’s had water flowing through it for the last 14 years, unless the car was covered.

 

[Hawk 1]

Thanks again for the replies. Not sure if I am up for taking the whole car apart for media blasting or acid dipping. I have added a couple of more picures. . . Let me know if you think a complete disassemble is necessary.

Thanks,

Hawk1

 

[351carlo]

First, I recommend full dissasembly. As said that car probably has a lot of areas that need attention, or you will just be band-aiding problems which will return in the future. If you're going to sink money into it, do it right.

Second, it's not a small project, and unless you are made of money, think 2-3 years, and a full garage to make sure you can take your time and dissassemble properly.

Third, show me a 1970 Mustang that has an original 351 windsor motor. We've gone the rounds before with this argument, and I have yet to see proof of an all original unmolested 1970 Mustang with the Windsor motor installed. I've heard all about the ''leftover'' motors making their way in early model 70's, yet no one has shown me one.

Thanks. Good luck with the car.

 

[bnickel]

First, I recommend full dissasembly. As said that car probably has a lot of areas that need attention, or you will just be band-aiding problems which will return in the future. If you're going to sink money into it, do it right.

Second, it's not a small project, and unless you are made of money, think 2-3 years, and a full garage to make sure you can take your time and dissassemble properly.

Third, show me a 1970 Mustang that has an original 351 windsor motor. We've gone the rounds before with this argument, and I have yet to see proof of an all original unmolested 1970 Mustang with the Windsor motor installed. I've heard all about the ''leftover'' motors making their way in early model 70's, yet no one has shown me one.

Thanks. Good luck with the car.

i have seen several original 70's with 2v windors motors. the 70 windsor was only available in the 2v version. a couple of years ago there was a mustang monthly cover car 70 mach 1 that had the original 2v windsor. a friends in high school had a 70 grande that his grandmother bought new that still had the original (never been out of the car) 2v windsor, in fact it had only had the valve cover gaskets changed and never been apart either. i think most of them came from the dearborn assembly plant so if you are no the west coast where you mostly see san jose built cars or one the east soast where metuchen cars are common that could be one reason you've never seen one. here in Texas they're pretty common.

 

[Platonic Solid]

I think you need to define your goals. If you want a long term challenging hobby, then this looks like a good project. If you want to make some quick cash, then buy it and resell it. If you want to drive it, let it go and buy something that needs much less work like this one: http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/3/4/83900734.htm

Apparently that add is no longer active on collector car trader, but here it is on the original listers site (about half way down the page): http://www.copcarsforsale.com/Muscle%20Cars.htm#STK7070

 

[MDinDestin]

i have seen several original 70's with 2v windors motors. the 70 windsor was only available in the 2v version. a couple of years ago there was a mustang monthly cover car 70 mach 1 that had the original 2v windsor. a friends in high school had a 70 grande that his grandmother bought new that still had the original (never been out of the car) 2v windsor, in fact it had only had the valve cover gaskets changed and never been apart either. i think most of them came from the dearborn assembly plant so if you are no the west coast where you mostly see san jose built cars or one the east soast where metuchen cars are common that could be one reason you've never seen one. here in Texas they're pretty common.

I started buying 69 and 70 mustangs in 1978 in Northwest Florida. There were plenty of 70 models with original 351 2V Windsor motors in that area.