Which mass air meter, Granatelli or C&L 76mm?
- Thread starter catman4115
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12 Sec Plus car = whatever you want- I have C&L and love it
11 Sec Lower car = Kenney Belle or Ford Motorsport
EDIT! Nope you have 30lb injectors- you need to use KB or Ford motorsport so that it'll check the tables on the eec... the others don't do that and make cars run wrong with different injectors
11 Sec Lower car = Kenney Belle or Ford Motorsport
EDIT! Nope you have 30lb injectors- you need to use KB or Ford motorsport so that it'll check the tables on the eec... the others don't do that and make cars run wrong with different injectors
Here, read this so you'll understand
http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/InductionBlues.html
http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/electronics/InductionBlues.html
mikenstang
New Member
Don't ever buy a granetelli!!!!!!!!!!! They are junk !!!!!!!!! I went through 2 meters on warranty. I finally returned the last one and asked for my money back. They credited Proficiant performance ( who I bought the meter from) but Performance closed up and kept the money. So now I am out $304.00 and Granatelli won't return the meter or my Money.
I was told by Granatelli that they were having trouble with a chip on the MAF so they made this cheesy harness adaptor to make the meter work. But it was intermittent to fix the issue. Overall the company is NOT customer friendly and their meters SUCK!!!!!!!!
I was told by Granatelli that they were having trouble with a chip on the MAF so they made this cheesy harness adaptor to make the meter work. But it was intermittent to fix the issue. Overall the company is NOT customer friendly and their meters SUCK!!!!!!!!
The most important factor is the fuel injector calibration.
If they are both calibrated to your 30lb injectors...
Then the Granatelli seems to have a better reputation on the net.
However, I have not had any issues with my 73 C&L in 10yrs.
If neither of them are cal'd for the 30lb injectors then get the correct sample tube for the C&L for ~25 bones shipped.
I think the Granatelli has to be returned to the manufacturer for re-cal?
jason
If they are both calibrated to your 30lb injectors...
Then the Granatelli seems to have a better reputation on the net.
However, I have not had any issues with my 73 C&L in 10yrs.
If neither of them are cal'd for the 30lb injectors then get the correct sample tube for the C&L for ~25 bones shipped.
I think the Granatelli has to be returned to the manufacturer for re-cal?
jason
Strype said:Evidentally no one read the article
You can't "calibrate" it guys...
I tried reading it but I have the attention span of a Goldfish.
The aftermarket meters are "calibrated" to the injector size.
(it is a joke that the word "calibrate" is used in this instance
)Not being able to calibrate the maf to the injector would require the EEC to be tuned with every MAF change.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something?
jason
The ford and KB maf sensors are different (from all others). They actually look on a table via the eec and pic which injector you are using mathmatically...
The other after market companies just change the size of the chamber that holds the sensors (one temp and one speed I think) in the maf itself, therefore they cannot look it up on the table and have to be "calibrated"... the problem is this throws off the "Load" calculation and mucks everything up. If you use an aftermarkedt MAF calibrated for 30lb injectors with you 30lb injectors chances are you'll have idling problems and such... if you just use a ford maf, you'll have none of those problems since none of them are "calibrated" and they can all be used from injector to injector (at least that's what the article said). Wide open throttle will not be a problem btw, just idling and general running
The other after market companies just change the size of the chamber that holds the sensors (one temp and one speed I think) in the maf itself, therefore they cannot look it up on the table and have to be "calibrated"... the problem is this throws off the "Load" calculation and mucks everything up. If you use an aftermarkedt MAF calibrated for 30lb injectors with you 30lb injectors chances are you'll have idling problems and such... if you just use a ford maf, you'll have none of those problems since none of them are "calibrated" and they can all be used from injector to injector (at least that's what the article said). Wide open throttle will not be a problem btw, just idling and general running
Strype said:The ford and KB maf sensors are different (from all others). They actually look on a table via the eec and pic which injector you are using mathmatically...
The other after market companies just change the size of the chamber that holds the sensors (one temp and one speed I think) in the maf itself, therefore they cannot look it up on the table and have to be "calibrated"... the problem is this throws off the "Load" calculation and mucks everything up. If you use an aftermarkedt MAF calibrated for 30lb injectors with you 30lb injectors chances are you'll have idling problems and such... if you just use a ford maf, you'll have none of those problems since none of them are "calibrated" and they can all be used from injector to injector (at least that's what the article said). Wide open throttle will not be a problem btw, just idling and general running
The load calculation error introduced by an aftermarket MAF is not as bad as you have made it sound. Many people throw an aftermarket maf on the car and experience no issues. But you are right it is not ideal.
As far as all Ford MAF meters being interchangeable...
The sn95 Mustang 70mm MAF is interchangable with the stock 5.0 MAF (F1ZF).
This is purely coincidence as it was not designed this way.
This is the only instance I am aware of.
Think of it this way.
A Ford MAF is calibrated to the computer.
An aftermarket MAF is cal'd to the injector and computer.
I will try to read that article again tonight, it seems there may be some verbage that is confusing an already messy subject.
jason
catman4115 said:
I guess I don't fully understand the reason you are making the change.
Do you have a third MAF that you are using now?
What is the setup that you have been running to this point?
What computer do you have?
Have you had a custom chip / dyno tune done?
Are you getting any codes?
When you do change meters, how long do you run the car before deciding it runs poorly?
In datalogs I have seen it take up to 20 miles to get the Adaptive Strategy to settle down.
What color is the sample tube in the 76mm C&L?
Can you provide a part number for the Granatelli meter?
Sorry to ask so many questions, but I feel as if we are getting bits and pieces to the story.
It is hard to tell what is going on when that is the case.
jason
RMODEL65
Member
i just got a c+l my car seems to run smoother and is snappier even with my 273 im adding 3.55 next week and ill be good for a while
vristang said:
I had originally bought the granatelli but later purchased the c&l for the tube to replace the stock intake tube with the intention of selling the granatelli. I just replaced my motor and havent found a setup that works well with my combination. I should also mention that my car uses a ridiculous amount of gas, im proibily getting 90 miles to a tank.
Im using an A9P computer which hasnt been chiped or to the dyno. The only codes i get are for my smog pump probibly because I dont one and Ive driven the car for a few days with both meters on there, the c&l tends to idle a little better but the granatelli seems like it has more at WOT.
The sample tube is purple, i checked the site and thats what its supposed to be. Granatelli # is 75935030-00c
Also the article is really interesting to read
catman4115 said:
That is alot of fuel!
Since the problem did not exist before the engine swap, and does exist now, with both meters... I would think that the problem is not related to the meters.
Can you double check the ground for the O2's?
There should be an orange wire coming out of the harness near the salt and pepper shakers. This is a ground specifically for the O2's, and should be fastened to the firewall with the block ground.
This ground wire is often missed when engines are replaced, or fresh paint can interfere with the ground.
That is all I can think of right now.
jason
vristang said:
Awesome- see I'm just quoting the article cause I'm learning myself... I'd love someone to explain this in lamens terms...
It does look like a messy subject
Strype said:Awesome- see I'm just quoting the article cause I'm learning myself... I'd love someone to explain this in lamens terms...
It does look like a messy subject
It was a good article, but just wasn't as clear about things as it could have been.
I had to re-read a few sentences to make sure I actually understood what was being conveyed.
You are doing well, so give up on it. Keep asking the questions.
(I am amazed that guys like JRichker and Hissin still acknowledge my existence, as I have come back and asked more questions than I can remember)
To be perfectly honest I didn't understand this subject at all, until I started using the tweecer a few months ago. Once I looked at the Ford calibrations it became very clear what was happening.
Until then, the subject was pretty jumbled in my mind.
A good way to learn a little on the EEC would be to download the tweecer software and manual. It is free to download.
Being able to look through some of factory settings and how they are setup, will help make sense of things.
The basic tuning section of the manual will help too, as it describes some of the reasoning for making changes.
Just a thought if anyone is curious.
jason
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