Rack and Pinion Problems

[DJE55]

I have a 67 Vert that I put a FR r&p steering set up in. Before everyone starts yelling at me, I wasn't on this board until after I heard about there problems. Now that I have put some miles on the car and tried to work out some of the problems, I need some advise. What can I do to help this kit work. I went through a ton of trouble to get this kit to work with my long tube headers and I don't want to start over. The car steers ok and holds a straight line but, the bump steer is terrible. Also, I have set the camber a few times and I can't get the wheel to come back to center in a turn. I have to manually pull this thing back to center every time I go around a corner. Any advise would be appreciated.

One more thing. Do any of you guys know of anyone making custom grills for our cars? I have an aluminum radiator set up with the stock grill and from a distance you can't tell it has a grill in it. I would like some type of black honeycomb type grill or something close to the RadRides Fastback. Any ideas? I'm attaching a picture for you guys to see what I'm talking about.

DJ

 

[65 fastback]

DJE55,

Bummer about the Flaming River rack and pinion, but now let's see if we can get it working better.

First can you explain the symptoms of your bumpsteer? What is the car doing that makes you think it is a bumpsteer issue?

Second, camber won't affect "return to center", caster will. You need a full 2* of positive caster.

Here is the proper alignment specs for our cars with modern radial tires:
The Performance alignment settings:
Caster: +1.5° to +2.5°
Camber: 0 to -.5°
Toe: 1/8"

Tim

 

[mdjay]

Have you tried any bump steering kits on the market? While it may not rid you of the problem completely, it may reduce it to negligible.

 

[bnickel]

i hate to tell you this but you are not going to be able to get rid of the bumpsteer due to the design of the FR rack. one of the aftermarket bump steer kits will probably help some but it's virtually impossible to get rid of it all. even a stock mustang steering setup is better in the bumpsteer area than the FR rack. the reason you won't be able to eliminate it is because of the mounting position of the tie rods. they are mounted too far outboard and unfortunately unless you spend a ton of money having the rack shortened and having new internals made for it you're pretty much stuck with it. the aftermarket bump steer kits will probably fix some of the problem but no matter how much better it get it will probably still have quite a bit of bump steer.

if it were me, i would ditch the FR rack and put the stock steering system back in it. it would be better for MY piece of mind and personal safety to just admit defeat with the rack and deal with the stock system until i could afford something better. not trying to be a downer here, just trying to be the voice of reason and sensibility. trust me i know what it's like to put a ton of work into making something work and getting frustrated by a poor design.

 

[DJE55]

65 fastback, thanks for the specs and I'll have to put it back up on the alignment machine and see how it works. Also, I was reffering to the caste/camber set up of the car. I don't think I'm running a full 2deg of caster but I do think it was close. The Bumpsteer issue is when I hit any bump in the road, wheather I'm gonig straight or in a corner, you can fell the car wanting to go one dirrection or the other.

mdjay, I have not tried any of the kits out there. After getting into this problem, I wanted to check with you guys before I got myself into another. Any suggestions on a good kit to try with this rack?

bnickel, I hear you and agree somewhat. The car, even with all it's issues, drives a million times better than it did with the stock steering in it. I will just deal with it for now.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll check my allignment specs and see what happens. If you have an idea on the bumpsteer kits that will work with the FR rack, please let me know.

Thanks
DJ

 

[67project]

DJ..

I can''t help you with your R&P issues as I have no experience with it, I'm still dealing with a crappy steering box. But I had to tell you that your car looks AMAZING . One day (poor college student right now) I want to get my convertible to the level yours is at.

BTW...what springs are you running in the front?.. your ride height is dead on.

If you have any more pictures online I would love to see them.

-J

 

[65 fastback]

DJ,

Go ahead and install one of the bumpsteer corrector kits, like the Baer Tracker - http://www.streetortrack.com/Baer-Tracker-Bump-Steer-Kit-c-465.html - These kits are adjustable, by moving the shims above or below the spindle mounting point.

I've got the Baer Tracker bumpsteer kit on my car with my TCP rack and Granada spindles. I was able to adjust out any noticable bumpsteer on my car. It is a better design then the stock tie rod ends and it helped to reduce the steering effort of my manual rack.

Tim

 

[DJE55]

Tim, I just noticed you are in Nova. Where in No Va are you? I'm up in Darnestown, Md. Thanks for all the advise. I ordered the Baer bumpsteer kit and hopefully it will be here soon. We'll see if that helps. 67project, I have a few more pics in my garage. Check those out and let me know what you think. It's funny. I've owned this car since I was 16 (over 20yrs) and I used to think the same thing. You'll get there, just don't sell it. Thanks guys.

 

[DJE55]

Well I guess it's back to square one! The Baer Tracker will not work with the FR rack. Any other units out there that might help?

 

[rc4mike]

DJE55 where did you get the cloth top? I am wanting one for my 65 GT.

thanks
mike

 

[66Runt]

Have you contacted Flaming River?

Well I guess it's back to square one! The Baer Tracker will not work with the FR rack. Any other units out there that might help?

If you call tech support at Flaming River and explain that you want to make their rack work the best it can, I would think they'd be happy to help. Unfortunately, there seems to be so much negativity towards this rack on the boards, that you may not want to mention what you've read.
Good luck,

 

[65 fastback]

Why won't the Baer Tracker work with a Flaming River Rack? How do the tie rods connect to the FR rack?

How is the FR rack different then the TCP rack in how the tie rods mount? The pictures in this link show how they mount to the TCP rack - http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/features/install/rackfalcon/page4.html

Do you or anyone have any pictures of the FR rack installed?



Tim

 

[bnickel]

Why won't the Baer Tracker work with a Flaming River Rack? How do the tie rods connect to the FR rack?

How is the FR rack different then the TCP rack in how the tie rods mount? The pictures in this link show how they mount to the TCP rack - http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/features/install/rackfalcon/page4.html

Do you or anyone have any pictures of the FR rack installed?



Tim

the FR rack is an end take off unit while the TCP rack is a center take off. in other words the FR rack's inner tie rods connect directly to the rack itself inside the housing.

 

[DJE55]

The end on the FR rack is a female rod and the Baer Tracker mates up to a male end. I have contacted FR by email to see if they have any suggestions. You would think they've had these questions from guys before. I'll wait and see what their reply is and let you guys know how it helps. Thanks for all of your help gusy. I'll keep you posted.

 

[wicked93gs]

the reason you won't be able to eliminate it is because of the mounting position of the tie rods. they are mounted too far outboard and unfortunately unless you spend a ton of money having the rack shortened and having new internals made for it you're pretty much stuck with it.

hate to hijack the thread, but one quick question since I happen to be researching rack and pinions as well....do you mean the ends of the rack are too far toward the sides of the car(too long)? or that they are located too far to the front? sorry, just a quick question since I am trying to understand how exactly it works

 

[65 fastback]

the FR rack is an end take off unit while the TCP rack is a center take off. in other words the FR rack's inner tie rods connect directly to the rack itself inside the housing.

Thanks bnic.

I'd still like to see a picture of one installed.

Tim

 

[mdjay]

The end on the FR rack is a female rod and the Baer Tracker mates up to a male end. I have contacted FR by email to see if they have any suggestions. You would think they've had these questions from guys before. I'll wait and see what their reply is and let you guys know how it helps. Thanks for all of your help gusy. I'll keep you posted.

Sounds like an easy fix with some rod stock. Length may be a small hurdle.

Here's a good shot of the TCP rack installed.

Flaming River rack

 

[rbohm]

dr gas has a kit that will help with bumpsteer, and even quicken the steering ratio a bit. it isnt adjustable though. check it out at www.drgas.com click on the pro motorsports suspension link.

 

[mdjay]

Most of the rack & pinions already increase the steering ratio. I have the dr gas kit with the tcp rack and it's a bit too quick. I'm changing it over to tcp's new bump steer kit!