Hey whats up? I have been looking into sc's and im leaning towards the procharger because of the air to air intercooler.. My question is should i go with the P1SC or the D1SC it will be on a mild 306 looking for 400's hp.. also what kind of boost should i expect on a 9 rib or a 12 rib.. thank you
Which Procharger?
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795.0pacecar
lover of pudgy polygamists
If I was to get a procharger I would never use the P1SC, the impeller is a very poor design, the D1SC is good though. If this is a car you drive alot you may want to look into getting a vortech, that way when you change your engine oil your also changing the supercharger oil, with the procharger you have to change its oil separately every 5000 miles, the vortech also has a better water cooled intercooler.
FastGT50Stang
New Member
795.0pacecar said:
Except for the Procharger P600B model, which is not a self-contained s/c, and involves tapping into the oil pan, even though some procharger models do have the straight impeller design like the p600b and d1sc, which are not the most efficient, but still are very good s/c'ers don't get me wrong, i have one on the way, and although i really don't think that the D-1SC is the s/c you want if your only looking for around 400 horses...
Stan
795.0pacecar
lover of pudgy polygamists
There is also the P1SC-1 that has curved impellers, if your dead set on procharger then thats the one you want. I like most prochargers, I've just read a lot of bad things about the lower models.
The D1SC doesn't have straight vanes, the P600B and P1SC do.
The D1SC doesn't have straight vanes, the P600B and P1SC do.
onefstsnake
New Member
795.0pacecar said:
The Vortech "Aftercooler" is not near as efficent as the A/A that ATI has...
My $.02
Personally I have not had any issues with the P1SC, but they do make a few different models. The D series blower is very nice and it has a totally different design. Depending on your set-up the D-series blower will make about 8-10psi out of the box but really to get into the efficency of the blower they need a little more blower rpm.
I am partial to the F1R as well
I have one.
795.0pacecar
lover of pudgy polygamists
Rick 91GT said:
How do you figure? Not only is there more boost lost through all the plumbing, water to air is more efficient than air to air, you also cant put ice water in an air to air intercooler.
-86GTStang
Member
Boost lost ?, its not like 10psi after 10 sec of boost.. If everything is like good connected, nothing else than cooled down air pressure would knock at the trotlebodys door ? All that plumbing, just cool down the compressed air. Think about the speed of the compressed air, travelling true the intercooler.And, why do some of the racecars send the turbo or blown air true an intercooler in the trunk etc. ?795.0pacecar said:
795.0pacecar said:
That's great for the track but worthless for the street. Ait to water cooler get heat saturated. Votech's kit is especially susseptible to this because for some reason, they decided to put the holding tank UNDER THE HOOD. Brilliant! not
Air to air is best for a street app. No heat soak, larger exchanger (typically). Not sure where you got the idea that there was more restriction with air to air vs. water to air either. Procharger kits come out of the driver side, straight through the exchanger and into the pass side to the intake. The Vortech kit enters and exits the same side with many more hard bends in the plumbing and smaller exchanger to squeeze through.
As far as the oiling goes... I consider keeping contaminated engine oil out of my blower a plus. Change it every other oil change... it takes 10 minutes tops.
795.0pacecar
lover of pudgy polygamists
I read that the blower has to put out a little more boost out at the outlet to keep the boost up in the pipes since they are so long or something like that. The vortech's water runs though its own fairly large heat exchanger in the front of the car, so I dont see how the water could just get heat soaked more than a big block of aluminum up against the radiator and pipes running through the engine bay. The water is constantly being pumped through the system and through the heat exchanger.
795.0pacecar
lover of pudgy polygamists
BTW Im not claiming to be an expert on this matter by any means, I just read a lot of stuff that may or may not be vortech propaganda that seems to make a lot of sense, If Im wrong do you guys know of any good counter test results that are in favor of the prochargers? What I read was where vortech tested the P1SC up against their base kit.
Oh btw, filtered engine oil isn't good enough for the supercharger, but its good enough for your very expensive engine?
Oh btw, filtered engine oil isn't good enough for the supercharger, but its good enough for your very expensive engine?
795.0pacecar said:
The clearances in an engine are considerably larger than that of a supercharger. What's more, imagine for a moment that you loose an engine bearing or simpler still, a head gasket and get water mixed with the oil. Not only have you just lost a motor but chances are you've just lost the blower too.
Having drained vast quantities of engine oil in my life and probably a 50 gallon drum's worth of self-contained blower oil... I can tell you with 100% certainty that the blower oil comes out looking like it did when it entered (usually looks as clean as it did when it went in) vs. engine oil that's black with contaminates or at least considerably darker than it was.
Granted, these are all catastrophic failures and folks have been running oil lines tapped into the pan successfully for years however... had I the option with any kind of blower... I'd prefer the blower oil to stay isolated from engine oil.
Heat soak is a real issue. It shouldn't be too difficult to dig up an article or two on it. Any time you use liquid in a cooling system, you get it. Both types of systems use a heat exchanger that's parked in front of or in the rear of the radiator. Some even use horizontally mounted exchangers that run behind and down from the radiator in the low pressure area (still pulling radiator air though the coils). The warmer the water in reservoir gets (in this case the reservoir is in the engine bay) the less efficient the air to water inter/after cooler gets. Air to air, on the other hand. Does not get heat soaked. It's always close to the same temp as the ambient air. If it has a 30* differential on a 70* day then that differential would actually be a bit smaller on a 90* day (the actual variance differs between size and style).
The point is that though air to air coolers are not the last word in inter-cooling, do seem to perform best and more consistently on a daily driven street vehicle.
For a track or mostly track vehicle... Sure... I'd take air to water hands down. A nice ice/salt slurry would drop inlet temps down to nothing!
onefstsnake
New Member
A good friend of mine runs a D1SC Procharger with a slightly larger A/A IC.
He also runs the Renegade Blower brackets.
He is currently running ~ 20psi, and putting down right at 700rwhp/rwtq.
This is in a Sportsman 347.
He has ran a best of 10.18 @ 136mph (which was on 14psi)
a few vids
Race: http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/onefstsnake2/?action=view¤t=PureComp-1.flv
Dyno:http://media.putfile.com/PUREVIL-on-the-Dyno
He also runs the Renegade Blower brackets.
He is currently running ~ 20psi, and putting down right at 700rwhp/rwtq.
This is in a Sportsman 347.
He has ran a best of 10.18 @ 136mph (which was on 14psi)
a few vids
Race: http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/onefstsnake2/?action=view¤t=PureComp-1.flv
Dyno:http://media.putfile.com/PUREVIL-on-the-Dyno
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