Do 2v 4.6's in the 96-98 have more HP potential than a 5.0?
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BlackVert
15 Year Member
the valve train is a little less parasitic. they can rev higher.
is it as easy? i doubt it. there are very few aftermarket parts compared to the 5.0 and the stuff is alot more expensive.
i had a 1996 2v. it was a dog. the intake is a big restriction and so are the heads. the "pi headswap" would have cost $3000 to do it correctly (upgraded cams and exhaust) and that would have put it at about 275 rw. that is why i sold it and bought my 5.0
i would love to see how "easy" it was for those guys to get 350 rw out of one of those without replacing the heads and intake. and how much it cost.
is it as easy? i doubt it. there are very few aftermarket parts compared to the 5.0 and the stuff is alot more expensive.
i had a 1996 2v. it was a dog. the intake is a big restriction and so are the heads. the "pi headswap" would have cost $3000 to do it correctly (upgraded cams and exhaust) and that would have put it at about 275 rw. that is why i sold it and bought my 5.0
i would love to see how "easy" it was for those guys to get 350 rw out of one of those without replacing the heads and intake. and how much it cost.
69clark
Founding Member
Chris - I didn't reconize you with that sweet v-tec in your avatar! lol
j/k - again it looks bada$$
j/k - again it looks bada$$
BlackVert
15 Year Member
swingline
New Member
I read an article in MMFF or 5.0 a while back called project rsc (red headed stepchild) in which they took a stock '96 2v and tried to get it over 300rwhp without the p.i. swap or any sort of power adder. if memory serves me they threw a ton of miscellaneous parts at it and werent able to hit their mark. It took ford a while to figure out how to make power with the sohc mod motors and the early ones were dogs.
BlackVert
15 Year Member
and another thing ... i'd like to see them do something like what i am doing ... drop in a big a$$ motor and leave pretty much everything else the same. about the biggest thing they have is a 5.4L 4v that can't make anywhere near what a 351 stroker can make for the same money.
who needs a 4.6 with a blower or nitrous when you can make the same power n/a?
who needs a 4.6 with a blower or nitrous when you can make the same power n/a?
See I have been on both sides of the fence now. A 350 na modular is not common without ALOT of work. But can it be done. Yes.
My 03' that I have now with just catback and gears is way faster than my 5.0 with a more bolts ons. But my 5.0 was auto and higher mile. The price of the SOHC modular is starting to come down and next year we should have a intake that is decent priced. Hopefully trickflow with come though on that one. I have seen 2v make around 300 rwhp with just cams and stock heads and intake and of course basic supporting bolts on and full exhaust.
I am hoping to hit 13.5 with my stock motor and full exhaust, gears, k member, subframes and tune.
I still have no doubt that the 5.0 is still better for racing. I think modulars are better DD. I get better gas mileage and the car is much smoother.
Dustin
My 03' that I have now with just catback and gears is way faster than my 5.0 with a more bolts ons. But my 5.0 was auto and higher mile. The price of the SOHC modular is starting to come down and next year we should have a intake that is decent priced. Hopefully trickflow with come though on that one. I have seen 2v make around 300 rwhp with just cams and stock heads and intake and of course basic supporting bolts on and full exhaust.
I am hoping to hit 13.5 with my stock motor and full exhaust, gears, k member, subframes and tune.
I still have no doubt that the 5.0 is still better for racing. I think modulars are better DD. I get better gas mileage and the car is much smoother.
Dustin
this is the last time i will do this. i will break down the cost of both 4.6 and 5.0 to achieve an approximate 300rwhp. for arguments sake i will start with 96-98 and a 94-95.
94-95:
heads--$1300, afr 165
cam--$170, tfs1
intake--$470, trick flow track heat
headers--$375, bbk
h-pipe--$180, bbk
catback--$470, magnaflow
pullies--$140, bbk
maf--$275, pro-m
inj--$275, frpp
cai--$155, bbk
------------------------------
$3810
96-98
heads--$1300, patiot stg2 PI
intake--$200, frpp PI intake
cams--$550, comp
headers--$500, bbk
h-pipe--$180, bbk
catback--$470, magnaflow
pullies--$140, bbk
maf--$275, pro-m
inj--$275, frpp
cai--$175, bbk
--------------------------------
$4065
of course gaskets and bolts and stuff wil be about equal as well so i did not list them. yes there will be some on here that say that you can do the 5.0 for less than what i listed--that argument goes both ways so shut it. if anything, with all that is listed i feel the 4.6 may make a bit more peak power due to the fact it is a 96-98 and they receive a good jump in compression with a PI head swap(the heads listed also have better flow numbers than the afr's). i also did not add the price of a timing chain or balancer for the 5.0--which it will need most likely(again argument can go both ways).
BTW, i personally feel that one is not harder to work on than the other.
94-95:
heads--$1300, afr 165
cam--$170, tfs1
intake--$470, trick flow track heat
headers--$375, bbk
h-pipe--$180, bbk
catback--$470, magnaflow
pullies--$140, bbk
maf--$275, pro-m
inj--$275, frpp
cai--$155, bbk
------------------------------
$3810
96-98
heads--$1300, patiot stg2 PI
intake--$200, frpp PI intake
cams--$550, comp
headers--$500, bbk
h-pipe--$180, bbk
catback--$470, magnaflow
pullies--$140, bbk
maf--$275, pro-m
inj--$275, frpp
cai--$175, bbk
--------------------------------
$4065
of course gaskets and bolts and stuff wil be about equal as well so i did not list them. yes there will be some on here that say that you can do the 5.0 for less than what i listed--that argument goes both ways so shut it. if anything, with all that is listed i feel the 4.6 may make a bit more peak power due to the fact it is a 96-98 and they receive a good jump in compression with a PI head swap(the heads listed also have better flow numbers than the afr's). i also did not add the price of a timing chain or balancer for the 5.0--which it will need most likely(again argument can go both ways).
BTW, i personally feel that one is not harder to work on than the other.
Hey Ben
That break down was Great
The biggest gripe I got about the mod motors is their lack of low end torque.
I've yet to drive a NA 2 or 4 cam version that did not make me so very thankful I got a push rod power plant in my 95. I've driven several 2 cams, a good friends 99 Cobra many times and the 05 stick GT right after they came out.
Every one of them ... you waited and waited for the power to come on
Finally ... around 4K ... there it was.
The Cobra had lots of it to be sure ... but you had to wait for it to appear
It would be interesting to have dyno pulls of two similar combos of each type like you listed above. I'd love to be able to see them side by side on the same chart.
I can't help but wonder if the same torque curves would be evident but just at higher levels
Grady
This is a good break down. The only thing i would add is that on a 5.0 it's not necessary to go out and buy top of the line $1300 heads or a $470 intake. With the number of 5.0L engines that ford has churned out, you can easily go to a salvage yard and score a set of GT40p's and a gt40(explorer) u/l intake for about 400 total. Sure you won't get quite as much power as the afr's but with a good port job and additional bolt on's its still a very significant gain over stock, and for 1/3rd the cost.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
Damn the TFS1 cam is 170$ now 
...I paid like 135 shipped new from summit 5yrs ago.
You can pick and choose parts to get any number you want to make it more equal or unequal in cost to reach a number.
I paid less than 500$ to hit 300hp.
However, I have ALOT of work/money/time in my heads (should have went to thumper from the start), I have very little in my explorer intake even after the powdercoating, 50$ or so in my MAF but 550$ in the tuning device. You can go all over and depends on were and how hard you look.
A bud of mine had a 00gt he bought new, it ran a 13.9 @101mph. Another buddy bought a 87gt hatch off his mom and it was BONE stock and ran a 13.9 @100. The buddy with the 00 really hated the powerband/trq of the 00gt. He always put it that he had to rev the hell out of it to get anything and even then it didnt make a whole lot for having to rev it to 6k. The bud with the 00 sold it for a 97 cobra, it already had 4.30's and runs DAMN good with all the gear.
I have always liked the 4v, much stronger blocks (compared to 5.0's), RETARDED heads, great cranks (cept the auto mach's), just in most the rods and pistons kinda suck when pushed with boost or a good n2o setup. From that standpoint I dont think I would ever buy any 2v...unless it had a blown motor to put a 4v in.
...I paid like 135 shipped new from summit 5yrs ago.You can pick and choose parts to get any number you want to make it more equal or unequal in cost to reach a number.
I paid less than 500$ to hit 300hp.
However, I have ALOT of work/money/time in my heads (should have went to thumper from the start), I have very little in my explorer intake even after the powdercoating, 50$ or so in my MAF but 550$ in the tuning device. You can go all over and depends on were and how hard you look.
A bud of mine had a 00gt he bought new, it ran a 13.9 @101mph. Another buddy bought a 87gt hatch off his mom and it was BONE stock and ran a 13.9 @100. The buddy with the 00 really hated the powerband/trq of the 00gt. He always put it that he had to rev the hell out of it to get anything and even then it didnt make a whole lot for having to rev it to 6k. The bud with the 00 sold it for a 97 cobra, it already had 4.30's and runs DAMN good with all the gear.
I have always liked the 4v, much stronger blocks (compared to 5.0's), RETARDED heads, great cranks (cept the auto mach's), just in most the rods and pistons kinda suck when pushed with boost or a good n2o setup. From that standpoint I dont think I would ever buy any 2v...unless it had a blown motor to put a 4v in.
you can go to a jy and pick up a set of PI heads/intake for the same as a "p" setup. i believe you would also get to the same power level as the "p" setup with stock PI cams. hence the argument going both ways.
blksn955.o
Founding Member
IIRC the PI swap puts you at around 270-275 and that is very much the ball park (if not more) than the gt40p setup.
That and alot of people dont know or realize that the trucks (both 4.6 and 5.4) had the same PI heads and same PI cams in 98+ so the "mustang" price increase may not apply at a jy in that case if one exists.
That and alot of people dont know or realize that the trucks (both 4.6 and 5.4) had the same PI heads and same PI cams in 98+ so the "mustang" price increase may not apply at a jy in that case if one exists.
trick flow is about to release an intake for the 4.6 ($600+ tho i belive)
FRPP has the bullitt intake ($800+you need to change a few other things to run it)
then theres a few other companys in the $800+ range that make intakes (reichard racing and the p51)
i think to see over 300+ on an n/a 4.6 you would need a diff intake then the stock PI
FRPP has the bullitt intake ($800+you need to change a few other things to run it)
then theres a few other companys in the $800+ range that make intakes (reichard racing and the p51)
i think to see over 300+ on an n/a 4.6 you would need a diff intake then the stock PI
Hey Ben
That break down was Great
The biggest gripe I got about the mod motors is their lack of low end torque.
I've yet to drive a NA 2 or 4 cam version that did not make me so very thankful I got a push rod power plant in my 95. I've driven several 2 cams, a good friends 99 Cobra many times and the 05 stick GT right after they came out.
Every one of them ... you waited and waited for the power to come on
Finally ... around 4K ... there it was.
The Cobra had lots of it to be sure ... but you had to wait for it to appear
It would be interesting to have dyno pulls of two similar combos of each type like you listed above. I'd love to be able to see them side by side on the same chart.
I can't help but wonder if the same torque curves would be evident but just at higher levels
Grady
Did some digging...I figured you would have some similar 5.0 graphs to toss up for comparison...
cammed, stock head PI
stock cam, LT, stg 2 ported heads
I am looking at my dyno numbers now in all RPMS and they are nearly exactly the same but at 4500 I am showing slightly more tq and in the 5500-6000 range the 4.6 stays more linear where the 5.0 loses ground.
So is that a fluke? Grady's experience must mean something..
BTW mine dyno also says "DynoJet" and the numbers (in this case) are almost EXACTLY the same..
So is that a fluke? Grady's experience must mean something..
BTW mine dyno also says "DynoJet" and the numbers (in this case) are almost EXACTLY the same..
Without me going to a lot of trouble to guesstimate all the numerical values
You can plainly see he don't hit 300 pounds until 3750 rpm
That is what I'm talkin about
The info above the pic says ... cammed, stock head PI
but
The info below the pic says ... stock cam, LT, stg 2 ported heads
I guess I'm lost and need a bit of enlightenment
Grady
