Roush Dealing with insurance companies
- Thread starter quickstang_1994
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FASN8N
Member
Give us more info!
Did you have a Saleen and now you are making a claim
or
Are you considering buying a Saleen and you want to make sure it is properly covered?
BobV
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
What you're talking about is "diminished value"... Which is a pretty grey area. You've probably got a case since we're talking about a collector-type car and third_party damage. You might be able to threaten litigation to get some compensation (especially if you're close to a "total loss"), but actually collecting on a repair may require a lawyer... 
Good read here (although biased, since an insurance company wrote it
):
http://www.statefarm.com/about/media/backgrounder/dimvalue.asp
Good read here (although biased, since an insurance company wrote it
):http://www.statefarm.com/about/media/backgrounder/dimvalue.asp
It is a Budget Saleen number 39B. A electric company truck backed into to it the are at full fault. They do not want to total it because he said it was a gt in the estimate. for $6900. 2 body shops said $10500 and $10900. the frame is messed up the top now leaks and the car is full of water.
Unclemilti
New Member
Sorry- but unless you had a "stated value" policy, you are out of luck.
You will get the standard black book value for our car.
Unclemilti
New Member
NADA means nothing. Insurance companies use ACV, backed up by Black Book values to determine your cars worth.
You will get ACV- "actual cash value", which if NADA lists the car at 20K, you may get 1/4 to half of that, if the adjuster is in a giving mood.
If you had a stated value policy, and you had the car insured for 20K you would be fine. They would have to pay it.
FASN8N
Member
Standard auto insurance policies do not guarantee a value for your car at the time of loss. Instead the "fair market value" will be paid out in the event of a total loss. GAP insurance policies are often purchased to insure that your leasing company or financed loan is paid in the event your car is totaled in an accident or stolen. But, what if you have a classic or collector car? If you wouldn't take your special car to just any old shop for service, the same should be true for its insurance.
Insurance companies will use one of three different policy forms. They are generally known as Actual Cash Value, Stated Value or Stated Amount and Agreed Value or Agreed Amount. Each of these three forms is different, and often misunderstood and misrepresented by insurance agents.
Collectible and classic and in some cases modified cars usually have a stable value and actually appreciate over time. Because the values are stable, an "Agreed Value" insurance policy should be purchased to protect a collectible auto. With an Agreed Value policy, if your car is stolen or totaled, you will receive the Agreed Value listed in writing on your auto policy. Most standard insurance companies don't offer an Agreed Value policy.
Actual Cash Value (ACV)This coverage can usually be provided by standard auto policies. At the time of a complete loss the insurance company claims adjuster will decide what your car is worth. You may have some input, if you do not agree with the claims adjuster, but in the end the insurance company decides the final settlement. If you don't agree with the settlement, you may have no choice except to seek legal action, or arbitration if specified by your policy agreement.
Stated Amount or Stated Value This policy is often misunderstood, and frequently used for collector cars. Most insurance agents represent stated amount or state value policies as being the same as "Agreed Amount." It is not!
A "Stated Amount" policy usually says the insurance company will pay the lesser of: The Stated Amount or The cost to repair the covered auto not to exceed the "Stated Amount" or The "Actual Cash Value"
The "Stated Amount" helps determine the premium cost but is no guarantee of the settlement amount of the car if a total occurs. The "Actual Cash Value" is explained above and allows the claims adjuster to determine the loss often for less than the "Stated Amount". Most insurance agents are not aware of this claims detail. Many agents, unaware of the actual policy language, will insist if your collector car is stolen or totaled, you will receive the stated value. They are Wrong!
Agreed Amount or Agreed Value Policies are the only guarantee in writing of the amount you will receive if your car is stolen or totaled. There is no "Actual Cash Value" clause in the policy. The "Agreed Amount" policy says the insurance company will pay you, the lesser of: The "Agreed Amount," or The cost to repair the covered auto, not to exceed the "Agreed Amount".
With an "Agreed Amount" auto policy, your agent and you must agree together what the "Agreed Amount" should be before the policy is issued. The "Agreed Amount" should represent the true market value of the car at the time the policy is written. If the market value changes during the policy period, the "Agreed Amount" can be adjusted to reflect any market changes during the policy period and should be reviewed at renewal.
These policies are different than Gap Insurance you may want to purchase to cover the fair market value of your car when it is financed or leased.
Insurance companies will use one of three different policy forms. They are generally known as Actual Cash Value, Stated Value or Stated Amount and Agreed Value or Agreed Amount. Each of these three forms is different, and often misunderstood and misrepresented by insurance agents.
Collectible and classic and in some cases modified cars usually have a stable value and actually appreciate over time. Because the values are stable, an "Agreed Value" insurance policy should be purchased to protect a collectible auto. With an Agreed Value policy, if your car is stolen or totaled, you will receive the Agreed Value listed in writing on your auto policy. Most standard insurance companies don't offer an Agreed Value policy.
Actual Cash Value (ACV)This coverage can usually be provided by standard auto policies. At the time of a complete loss the insurance company claims adjuster will decide what your car is worth. You may have some input, if you do not agree with the claims adjuster, but in the end the insurance company decides the final settlement. If you don't agree with the settlement, you may have no choice except to seek legal action, or arbitration if specified by your policy agreement.
Stated Amount or Stated Value This policy is often misunderstood, and frequently used for collector cars. Most insurance agents represent stated amount or state value policies as being the same as "Agreed Amount." It is not!
A "Stated Amount" policy usually says the insurance company will pay the lesser of: The Stated Amount or The cost to repair the covered auto not to exceed the "Stated Amount" or The "Actual Cash Value"
The "Stated Amount" helps determine the premium cost but is no guarantee of the settlement amount of the car if a total occurs. The "Actual Cash Value" is explained above and allows the claims adjuster to determine the loss often for less than the "Stated Amount". Most insurance agents are not aware of this claims detail. Many agents, unaware of the actual policy language, will insist if your collector car is stolen or totaled, you will receive the stated value. They are Wrong!
Agreed Amount or Agreed Value Policies are the only guarantee in writing of the amount you will receive if your car is stolen or totaled. There is no "Actual Cash Value" clause in the policy. The "Agreed Amount" policy says the insurance company will pay you, the lesser of: The "Agreed Amount," or The cost to repair the covered auto, not to exceed the "Agreed Amount".
With an "Agreed Amount" auto policy, your agent and you must agree together what the "Agreed Amount" should be before the policy is issued. The "Agreed Amount" should represent the true market value of the car at the time the policy is written. If the market value changes during the policy period, the "Agreed Amount" can be adjusted to reflect any market changes during the policy period and should be reviewed at renewal.
These policies are different than Gap Insurance you may want to purchase to cover the fair market value of your car when it is financed or leased.
Unclemilti
New Member
ExtremeSaleen
New Member
It sounds like you want them to total the car. Failing that maybe you can get more out of them with a diminished value claim.
I am going through this with my car. I was in an accident last year in which a semi decided he liked my lane better than his… he was bigger so he won. My car had only very minor damage done to it and was easily fixed, but it still had to be reported to the state of California and that minor accident will probably now show up on a carfax that is run against it. We all know there is a stigma attached to a car that has been in an accident, period. One car in an accident, one not; which would you choose? Now make that car that you’re looking at a Saleen.
Diminished value is one of those topics that the insurance companies would like to sweep under the rug and forget about but it is real. They are fighting it as much as they can but they are losing. Courts are now siding with the consumer in many of these cases. In a resent California court case, the Judge found for the plaintiff and basically stated (paraphrasing a little here) “diminished value is not a physical loss but a perceived loss. The cost of a physical repair has no bearing on the loss of diminished value.”
That last part is really important. The other guys insurance company said ‘You have a $4,000 dollar repair and you want $4,000 in diminished value?” You’re damn right I do.
I’ve spoken to a very good lawyer on this and you can win, but you have a lot of work to do before something like this makes it to court. You have to provide them as much information as possible on the car, the value of the car before the accident, get professional appraisals done on the car now, get statements from dealerships about how much they knock off the value on a trade-in that has been in an accident, etc., etc. etc. You have to give this insurance company this information and then give them the opportunity to do the right thing. If they don’t, then you can file a suite against them for bad faith. More then likely though they will offer you a settlement.
Of course, the above is what I’ve found in the state of California, your state might be different.
I am going through this with my car. I was in an accident last year in which a semi decided he liked my lane better than his… he was bigger so he won. My car had only very minor damage done to it and was easily fixed, but it still had to be reported to the state of California and that minor accident will probably now show up on a carfax that is run against it. We all know there is a stigma attached to a car that has been in an accident, period. One car in an accident, one not; which would you choose? Now make that car that you’re looking at a Saleen.
Diminished value is one of those topics that the insurance companies would like to sweep under the rug and forget about but it is real. They are fighting it as much as they can but they are losing. Courts are now siding with the consumer in many of these cases. In a resent California court case, the Judge found for the plaintiff and basically stated (paraphrasing a little here) “diminished value is not a physical loss but a perceived loss. The cost of a physical repair has no bearing on the loss of diminished value.”
That last part is really important. The other guys insurance company said ‘You have a $4,000 dollar repair and you want $4,000 in diminished value?” You’re damn right I do.
I’ve spoken to a very good lawyer on this and you can win, but you have a lot of work to do before something like this makes it to court. You have to provide them as much information as possible on the car, the value of the car before the accident, get professional appraisals done on the car now, get statements from dealerships about how much they knock off the value on a trade-in that has been in an accident, etc., etc. etc. You have to give this insurance company this information and then give them the opportunity to do the right thing. If they don’t, then you can file a suite against them for bad faith. More then likely though they will offer you a settlement.
Of course, the above is what I’ve found in the state of California, your state might be different.
cradicg
New Member
Try this company....
American Hobbyist is one. That's who I am going through now. American Collectors is one I have used in the past (may need to be a USAA member though). Sneed is one I have heard of but not used. There's another one I see on Speed Channel all the time but can't think of., Grummby maybe?
Check this link for more info....
http://www.americanhobbyist.com/p_policyinfo.htm
The rates are incredible, but there are restrictions on the policy. My American Collectors policy only allowed so many miles per year. The American Hobbyist policy does not limit miles. Most of them require at least one other vehicle per household member of driving age (not including the collector car), you can only use the vehicle for pleasure/club activities/repair shop travels, and of course NO RACING. There are other varying requirements so talk with several different companies. I also hear State Farm is rather "performance" car friendly, but they may not allow a locked in value on your car.
quickstang_1994: It sounds like you may be too late for this incident, but something to think about for the future. Man, that sucks....
American Hobbyist is one. That's who I am going through now. American Collectors is one I have used in the past (may need to be a USAA member though). Sneed is one I have heard of but not used. There's another one I see on Speed Channel all the time but can't think of., Grummby maybe?
Check this link for more info....
http://www.americanhobbyist.com/p_policyinfo.htm
The rates are incredible, but there are restrictions on the policy. My American Collectors policy only allowed so many miles per year. The American Hobbyist policy does not limit miles. Most of them require at least one other vehicle per household member of driving age (not including the collector car), you can only use the vehicle for pleasure/club activities/repair shop travels, and of course NO RACING. There are other varying requirements so talk with several different companies. I also hear State Farm is rather "performance" car friendly, but they may not allow a locked in value on your car.
quickstang_1994: It sounds like you may be too late for this incident, but something to think about for the future. Man, that sucks....
Thanks they are being a pain not wanting to give a rental car which is state law here. And telling me they are going to put used parts on it and a gt bumper. These guys are crazy and lucky no lawyer will take the case yet because no one was hurt.
Diminished value is real!!!
The loss in value of a damaged vehicle is known as Diminished Value. The amount of Diminished Value of a damaged and repaired vehicle depends upon several factors including: the pre-loss value of the vehicle, the nature and severity of the damages and the cost, manner and thoroughness of the performed repairs.
Consider that, when a vehicle is in an accident, it loses its greatest value just after the actual impact or occurrence. During the dismantling, repair, installation and painting of replacement parts, the value is slowly restored as the repairs progress.
The full original value will likely never be regained simply because the vehicle now has a history of damage that it did not have before the loss. Prior damage history will be disclosed to potential buyers who will likely not pay the same for a vehicle with a damage history as compared to one with no damage history. This is often referred to as “the damaged goods syndrome”.
If the repairs are done thoroughly and in a workmanlike manner, the value of the vehicle can be maximized to the best of reasonable human ability but likely never to its pre-loss value.
If the repairs are done to less than thorough and workmanlike standards, the recovery in value will be limited accordingly, and the vehicle will suffer a greater loss or diminishment in value.
The more significant the damages, the greater the loss in value. The poorer the repair quality, the less recovery of the vehicle’s original and pre-loss value.
In order to make this determination you should secure the services of an independent professional to perform a visual inspection of the vehicle and prepare an expert assessment of your remaining loss.
Check with your states Insurance commisioners website and search for diminished value.
The loss in value of a damaged vehicle is known as Diminished Value. The amount of Diminished Value of a damaged and repaired vehicle depends upon several factors including: the pre-loss value of the vehicle, the nature and severity of the damages and the cost, manner and thoroughness of the performed repairs.
Consider that, when a vehicle is in an accident, it loses its greatest value just after the actual impact or occurrence. During the dismantling, repair, installation and painting of replacement parts, the value is slowly restored as the repairs progress.
The full original value will likely never be regained simply because the vehicle now has a history of damage that it did not have before the loss. Prior damage history will be disclosed to potential buyers who will likely not pay the same for a vehicle with a damage history as compared to one with no damage history. This is often referred to as “the damaged goods syndrome”.
If the repairs are done thoroughly and in a workmanlike manner, the value of the vehicle can be maximized to the best of reasonable human ability but likely never to its pre-loss value.
If the repairs are done to less than thorough and workmanlike standards, the recovery in value will be limited accordingly, and the vehicle will suffer a greater loss or diminishment in value.
The more significant the damages, the greater the loss in value. The poorer the repair quality, the less recovery of the vehicle’s original and pre-loss value.
In order to make this determination you should secure the services of an independent professional to perform a visual inspection of the vehicle and prepare an expert assessment of your remaining loss.
Check with your states Insurance commisioners website and search for diminished value.
88-378
Member
What is a Budget Saleen number?
Also, i am going thru this diminished value thing with my wifes 04 Odyssey. Bascially the car sells for 16-19, the loss from value being what I can realistically get the car for is around 12, which i should be getting a check in the sum of 4-7K.
I already have all my paperwork ready at my lawyers office if needed. there are formulas on th3e nbet and a few good sites to read.
BTW, you needed to have a stated value on it. I have progressive insurance and my stated value on my 88 is $25K. Although i do have receipts totalling $29K
Also, i am going thru this diminished value thing with my wifes 04 Odyssey. Bascially the car sells for 16-19, the loss from value being what I can realistically get the car for is around 12, which i should be getting a check in the sum of 4-7K.
I already have all my paperwork ready at my lawyers office if needed. there are formulas on th3e nbet and a few good sites to read.
BTW, you needed to have a stated value on it. I have progressive insurance and my stated value on my 88 is $25K. Although i do have receipts totalling $29K
S351R"Animal"
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
You need to contact Saleen and get a letter stating that your car is a real saleen. Then find a similar car that is for sale and what it i listed for. Also, call Mark at PAS. He may be able to point you in the right direction. With it being the other guys fault get a lawyer and sue for the inconvience that they have caused.
I didnt know you could do stated value thru progressive. how did you manage that? I have progressive and just had an accident with my Saleen. they tried to give me trouble the first day i spoke with the adjustor because the VIN shows up mustang GT. I told them that i specifically spoke with the agent when i signed up that it was a saleen and they said it would be covered in the event of an accident/loss. They either found that tape or called and verified with saleen it was a real car. The next day they were coverring everything. $8K in damage, i'm surprised it wasnt totalled considering its 2002. But they paid for all the repairs, so their value they are going on must be quite a bit for the car.
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