4 point safety harness, who use it

[Markus]

Hello guys,

i like to install a set of 4 point belts from gforce or simpson in my 67 fastback. Who installed one? Where did you mount it without a rollcage?
I would´nt like to install a cage in my mustang but i like a little more protection.

thank´s

Markus

 

[Dark Knight]

Be carefull, most racing belts arent DOT approved... go figure..

 

[Markus]

Oh, yes you are right. Thank you for the info. I live in germany and we need a street legal harness too. I found this Willans belts at a lokal store. This belt are street legal and they have a ECE (Economic Commission for Europe) permission.
What do you think?

 

[2bav8]

I mounted my Simpson 5 points to my roll bar

 

[BullittStangV8]

I'll be mounting a 5 point harness of of my 6pt cage. They arn't legal here in the US on a daily driver, but I havent heard of anyone getting in trouble for it.

 

[suki243]

Hey watsup, I'm in the same search as you are, what I have found out is that if you want 4 pt seat belts you have to sacrafice your back seats. I have found harness bars though.
Another way to get em is if you mount them to where your back seat's seatbelts are. I've heard. What I know is that they have to be at least at a 45 + angle otherwise in the case of an impact they will crush your spine. In other words you cannot have them mounted to the floor. I'm not sure the roof is sturdy enough to have seat belts mounted to it, ,
We'll see what others have to say, there's been a bunch of previous threads about a similar topic, check em out maybe you'll see somethin you like.

My 2 cents

 

[bdepedro]

I've been told by my racing friends that a 4/5 point harness should NOT be installed without a rollbar. Apparently the force in a collision would be directly down on your shoulders and not across your chest since the belts would go over your shoulders, the seat, and then down to the floor mount. With a bar the mount would be up and over your shoulders which would distribute the force across your body, it seems. Anybody else know or hear about this concern? Make sure you talk to someone who really knows about this before you do it.

 

[suki243]

Check this out
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=551058&highlight=point+harness
The last post, Carioca works for a company that sells 3, 4 and 5 pnt seat belts, you might wanna talk to him

 

[Markus]

Hello guys,

i know, the mount without a rollbar is not the best thing. Suki243 ist right, the original mounting point from the rear harness is a good place. But this angle is, i think, about 45 or more below the shoulders. The G-Force installation instruction say that a acceptable range is 5 below and 30 above the shoulder! Ok, that would be for SFI installations but for street use pobably too.

Markus

 

[Edbert]

Try to avoid absolute statements like "this will cause that" in a crash. There are so many variables that every statement has an exception and some exceptions are actually the opposite.

For example I have heard the rear mount of a 4-5 point system needs to be 90-degrees (horizontal) behind the shoulders to avoid spine compression, I've also heard that they must be at 45 degrees downwards (as opposed to mounted to the floor) for the same reason. In the 60s the Shelby's had them up on top of the hoop over head high, and nearly every passenger car/truck on the road has them above shoulder height. it seems everyone on a BBS/Forum/intardnet can name a guy who personally knows a guy (who knows a guy?) in the autocross club who was paralyzed by doing (or not doing) one or the other.

Only point I am making is that there's nothing you can do that will guarantee your safety in a crash, certainly not in any crash. My approach is to try to IMPROVE the safety of the vehicle over what it was. Considering most classic owners only had a lap-belt...any of these things are an improvement, and in my opinion are better to have than not have.

EDIT TO ADD: Also worth mentioning are the racing seats with safety-belt cutouts...if the holes the belts pass through are at shoulder height then compression should not be an issue. Unless of course the crash is of sufficient violence to tear the seat loose from the floor and rip the backing material up, in which case you're probably going to be mangled no matter what, with a helmet/rollbar/rollcage or not.

 

[1965stangcoupe]

If you have seats which are higher than your shoulders wouldn't that solve the problem of it crushing you or does it crush the seat backs also?

You could put a bar across the back behind the seats if you dont want a roll bar.

I am trying to figure out if I should put a roll bar(or 4 point cage) in while my car is all apart... will it help alot with stiffening the car more than the subframe conecters that i am putting in?

Does it get anoying when you try to take passengers in the back seat? I guess since I am tall and we be moving the pans back a little it will be bad already...

 

[Markus]

Hello,

a bar behind the rear seats is a great idea man! Behind the rear seats is a unused room anyway. So i can design the bar with a perfect angle for the harnesses.
I take very rarely passengers on the rear seat. Is it so, i disconnect the belts.
Here the seats i like to buy. They called Nürburgring 911. They are a design of the 60´s and 70´s. The back is slightly higher than my shoulders so the belt lies on the back.

Markus

 

[BullittStangV8]

Another option guys to check out proper harness mounting would be to check an NHRA or other racing body rule book for the proper angle. For my caged up car, I had them weld in a "bung" to mount a bolt in harness to.The angle IS important IMO, and mounting it to the floorpan or seat belt location in the back seat is semi-not smart. Sure it might be "better" then no belt of a lap belt...but its still not right.

 

[66forfun]

"proper harness mounting would be to check an NHRA..." exactly! 3 point (> my 2 point) for added street protection. roll bar and harness for race protection. where do you use your car? hopefully none of us will be testing safety equipment any time soon.

 

[1965stangcoupe]

Hello,

a bar behind the rear seats is a great idea man! Behind the rear seats is a unused room anyway. So i can design the bar with a perfect angle for the harnesses.
I take very rarely passengers on the rear seat. Is it so, i disconnect the belts.
Here the seats i like to buy. They called Nürburgring 911. They are a design of the 60´s and 70´s. The back is slightly higher than my shoulders so the belt lies on the back.

Markus

I looked up harness bar on ebay and this should provide an idea as to what you might want. I dont think these bars have ever been mad for classic mustangs but if you know how to weld or know someone who does It would be pretty simple. you just have to make sure it will be strong enough. here is a couple that look well designed that I found on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RACE...tegoryZ42612QQihZ013QQitemZ230086925683QQrdZ1

Just so you know, the small bars off of the big one is just to keep the belts from sliding around... I am guessing. There is no way I would attach the belts to those little things as opossed to the big bar.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harn...4QQihZ013QQcategoryZ33725QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Markus]

"proper harness mounting would be to check an NHRA..." exactly! 3 point (> my 2 point) for added street protection. roll bar and harness for race protection. where do you use your car? hopefully none of us will be testing safety equipment any time soon.

Hi,

my stang is 99% street driven. Some times fast some times cruising. I don´t drive it on the track or professional racing. Each belt is better than no belt but a 4 point looks better in a sport car.

Markus