Need help from any SC officer or ex-officer,judge

[GalaxieWarrior]

I believe I'm being hassled by a City of Columbia police officer. I was wrote up for a loud noise/racing engine violation of city ordanance 8-65. I have a cat-less X-pipe and flowmasters so my cars loud in general but is still within SC state law requirements of one working muffler per pipe. Heres what happend.

A friend and I were ordering lunch from the rosewood dairy bar. After waiting unusually long for our food we prepared to leave. Just as I shut my door a police officer pulled in beside me and sat there. It took about a min. and a half for rosewood to clear enough for me to back out during which i thought it was odd the cop was just still sitting there. Now I'm going to be overly descript on this next part but it should make sense in the end. I drive a manual so as everyone know it likes a little gas to start out in reverse so I give it about 1,200 rpm nothing odd. I put it in 1st after backing out proceed to slowly ease of the clutch and shift to second at about 2500 rpm. At about this point I hear the ever dreaded fwoop fwoop of the cop car and see blue lights in my rear. I ask my friend did I do anything wrong and he says don't worry about it. After pulling over for the cop promptly, he proceeds to bruskly ask me to turn off the engine as if its IMPOSSIBLE to hear over it sitting there idleing at 400 rpm (where I have it set with the tuner) I then asked him whats the problem. At this point he insists I was standing still racing my engine. I very politely disagree with him and insist I did nothing out of the ordinary. He takes my liscence and proceeds to call in two other cars to consult with. (at least thats what I assume he needed them for) After much deliberation he comes back with my ticket for $336.

Is there anyway to fight this? Can I make him show the in car tape in court? Is it illegal to drive over 2000 rpm in the city? ALSO doesn't it seem odd that he would just let me sit there and "rev" the engine with out pulling me over before I even left?

Plus to top things off I was almost creamed by a civic who ran a light later that night. I seriously hope those tickets are MUCH higher than mine. It just doesn't make sense why a quality of life violation would be more of a fine than a MAJOR saftey hazzard.

 

[Mr_K_Code65]

This ordinance states

Sec. 8-65. Racing engines of vehicles.
It shall be unlawful for any person to race the engine of any motor vehicle while such vehicle is not in motion, except when necessary to do so in the course of repairing, adjusting or testing the vehicle.
(Code 1979, § 2-2086)
Cross references: Motor vehicles and traffic, ch. 12.
\


So he didn't bust your nuts for having a loud exhaust. He just thinks you were racing the engine. I would ask a someone to assist you in defining what "race" an engine actually means, maybe as opposed to "revving". The intent of the ordinance is what's most important and a lawyer can help you with that. But of course he'll probably want $250/hr.... any independent witnesses you can locate?

 

[GalaxieWarrior]

AH

Yeah I was afraid of that any idea of what kind of chance in court I'll have with just stating what happend? I don't have any independent witness all i have is my roommate. So the officers statement will serve as enough proof to be charged the fine? Would I be able to ask for the tape?

 

[YardSpecial]

Too funny !! Put your cats back on..............

 

[spectre30075]

Good to know those assclowns have their priorities straight. I wonder how many thefts occured while Barney Fife was harassing you about your car?

 

[Spdfreak]

They gotta keep that revenue flowing.

 

[cowtown]

Just challenge it and explain your story. Explain that you have to rev your engine a bit to get the car moving but you never exceeded such and such RPM. The judge unless he's a dick will likely side with you. Even though your friend was in the car, he's still a witness and can be used.

 

[07 GT/CS]

I'll give you my .02 for what it's worth from somebody in the People's Republic of Cali.

1. If you go to court, or deal with an attorney, stick to the facts surrounding the actual violation charged. The judge could care less about whether the officer was polite or not, if the officer waited six weeks just to pull you over, how many backup units showed up, etc. They want to know simply whether or not you violated the statute. If the officer can make a convincing case that you did, and you cannot prove otherwise, then you will lose.

2. As for turning off the engine, most cops will tell you to do this. Not because it is loud, they have some deep concern for the excessive burning of fossil fuels causing global warming, or dislike the smell of exhaust. It is simply to prevent you from changing your mind and launching off into the wild blue yonder while they are standing away from their cruiser. It isn't unusual for an officer to have you actually take your keys from the ignition and either pocket them, or even put them on the roof of the car until they are done. It is simply a tactic to keep everyone safe and discourage foolish decisions.

3. Whether the officer is "brusk" or not is a pretty subjective call. Officers aren't generally going to skip on up to the car with a big ol' donut eating grin on their face and treat you like a long lost cousin who won the lottery. They usually have on their "game face" during the contact. This serves a few purposes including not getting too chummy with someone they may have to cite or arrest, it serves to slightly intimidate those easily intimidated, let's a good violent crook know they mean business, and is usually designed with the outcome being positive on the officer side of the equation, i.e. going home safely.

4. Having backup units arrive is pretty common and normally happens without an officer even requesting it. Unless you come across as potentially violent, an officer will not ask for more units as a general rule. But, as another general rule, an officers fellow officers will roll by to make sure everything is ok. If it is quiet and not much is happening, even more reason to stop by and participate. Sometimes the most innocuous minor traffic infractions result in drug seizures, captured felons, etc. You would be surprised at how many good crooks go to jail as the result of a minor traffic stop. It is the bread and butter of many successful agencies in surppressing all kinds of more serious societal problems.

5. Not every patrol car has a video camera. And, even when they do, most police agencies do not retain video of traffic stops for very long. The data storage requirements would be astronomical to retain every car stop. You would have to have a gazillion terabytes at the station to keep everything long term. Or, spend their budget having the data compressed and stored offsite. As a result, most agencies only retain routine video for no more than a few days, maybe a week or a month at most, unless an officer specifically takes steps to retain the event suspecting some kind of allegation. Some agencies keep the video for a long time but it is rare. The video quality probably isn't going to help your case anyway. While the video picture is occasionally clear, the sound is usually crappy.

Lastly, as with most tickets, it comes down to your word against the officers. 99% of all court cases will be won by the officer unless you can show that they made a mistake, or that you really could not have violated the section. An example of this would be an officer citing for headlights too low without measuring. Then you bring your car to court, show pictures of the headlights against a measuring stick, and invite the judge out to see that they are in compliance. This type of defense may win. But, when it comes to a behaviorial type violation, it will be the officers word against yours. In those cases, the officer will usually prevail. Also, if you plan on going to court simply hoping the officer doesn't show, be prepared to argue something if the officer is there. You don't want to stand in front of the judge with your mouth hanging slack mumbling. The judge will bend you over in several ways.....

Oh, and as for the revenue generating suspicion; most larger agencies don't see hardly any of the fines paid in court. By the time the feds, states, counties, courts, etc. get done slicing up the fines, the issueing agency sees very little. Just for giggles one time I researched some of my local cities budget documents (which were online and easily accessible) to see where fine revenue fitted into the overall city and county revenues. For all fines, including traffic citations, zoning violations, late fees, library fees, building code violations, etc. etc., most cities and counties get about 1 - 4% of their total revenue from all fines/fees. Break down the amount just for traffic tickets and it is a pittance. Now, I'm sure there are a few one stoplight towns that get a few bucks from traffic enforcement, but that is more of an urban legend when it comes to the big cities. Of course this is in my neck of the woods. Your mileage may vary.........

 

[6773]

I'll give you my .02 for what it's worth from somebody in the People's Republic of Cali.

1. If you go to court, or deal with an attorney, stick to the facts surrounding the actual violation charged. The judge could care less about whether the officer was polite or not, if the officer waited six weeks just to pull you over, how many backup units showed up, etc. They want to know simply whether or not you violated the statute. If the officer can make a convincing case that you did, and you cannot prove otherwise, then you will lose.

2. As for turning off the engine, most cops will tell you to do this. Not because it is loud, they have some deep concern for the excessive burning of fossil fuels causing global warming, or dislike the smell of exhaust. It is simply to prevent you from changing your mind and launching off into the wild blue yonder while they are standing away from their cruiser. It isn't unusual for an officer to have you actually take your keys from the ignition and either pocket them, or even put them on the roof of the car until they are done. It is simply a tactic to keep everyone safe and discourage foolish decisions.

3. Whether the officer is "brusk" or not is a pretty subjective call. Officers aren't generally going to skip on up to the car with a big ol' donut eating grin on their face and treat you like a long lost cousin who won the lottery. They usually have on their "game face" during the contact. This serves a few purposes including not getting too chummy with someone they may have to cite or arrest, it serves to slightly intimidate those easily intimidated, let's a good violent crook know they mean business, and is usually designed with the outcome being positive on the officer side of the equation, i.e. going home safely.

4. Having backup units arrive is pretty common and normally happens without an officer even requesting it. Unless you come across as potentially violent, an officer will not ask for more units as a general rule. But, as another general rule, an officers fellow officers will roll by to make sure everything is ok. If it is quiet and not much is happening, even more reason to stop by and participate. Sometimes the most innocuous minor traffic infractions result in drug seizures, captured felons, etc. You would be surprised at how many good crooks go to jail as the result of a minor traffic stop. It is the bread and butter of many successful agencies in surppressing all kinds of more serious societal problems.

5. Not every patrol car has a video camera. And, even when they do, most police agencies do not retain video of traffic stops for very long. The data storage requirements would be astronomical to retain every car stop. You would have to have a gazillion terabytes at the station to keep everything long term. Or, spend their budget having the data compressed and stored offsite. As a result, most agencies only retain routine video for no more than a few days, maybe a week or a month at most, unless an officer specifically takes steps to retain the event suspecting some kind of allegation. Some agencies keep the video for a long time but it is rare. The video quality probably isn't going to help your case anyway. While the video picture is occasionally clear, the sound is usually crappy.

Lastly, as with most tickets, it comes down to your word against the officers. 99% of all court cases will be won by the officer unless you can show that they made a mistake, or that you really could not have violated the section. An example of this would be an officer citing for headlights too low without measuring. Then you bring your car to court, show pictures of the headlights against a measuring stick, and invite the judge out to see that they are in compliance. This type of defense may win. But, when it comes to a behaviorial type violation, it will be the officers word against yours. In those cases, the officer will usually prevail. Also, if you plan on going to court simply hoping the officer doesn't show, be prepared to argue something if the officer is there. You don't want to stand in front of the judge with your mouth hanging slack mumbling. The judge will bend you over in several ways.....

Oh, and as for the revenue generating suspicion; most larger agencies don't see hardly any of the fines paid in court. By the time the feds, states, counties, courts, etc. get done slicing up the fines, the issueing agency sees very little. Just for giggles one time I researched some of my local cities budget documents (which were online and easily accessible) to see where fine revenue fitted into the overall city and county revenues. For all fines, including traffic citations, zoning violations, late fees, library fees, building code violations, etc. etc., most cities and counties get about 1 - 4% of their total revenue from all fines/fees. Break down the amount just for traffic tickets and it is a pittance. Now, I'm sure there are a few one stoplight towns that get a few bucks from traffic enforcement, but that is more of an urban legend when it comes to the big cities. Of course this is in my neck of the woods. Your mileage may vary.........

This is the most intelligent post I've ever seen on the subject of traffic tickets.

 

[discofan]

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times:

COPS ARE GODS and can give you a ticket for anything at all...

In a big city like Chicago, COPS are generally more interested in preserving in pease and making sure that the gangs don't take over the city than giving a ticket like you got for such a stupid thing...

Sorry to hear about your event...

Dave

 

[stanmckinney]

If you have a good friend in the court system, you might at least be able to get diversion. That means if you get no tickets for a year this one goes away.

I've had many Mustangs and never had to give it that much gas just to take off in first gear. I also agree that you should turn a vehicle off when a police officer approaches.

 

[bluecar]

Galaxy..........

All due respect and no offense intended but.......
is that your red car on the avtar and if it is, it's smokin off my screen.

 

[sonic blue roush]

get a lawyer,pay him,dont worry about it,let hi do his job,outcome will be fineb

 

[GalaxieWarrior]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. Especially 07 GT/CS amd Mr. K code65. The trial is March 8th and I'll let yall know what the outcome is.

 

[GalaxieWarrior]

Results

Well I explained myself in court and had the fine reduced to 20 bucks which ended up being 90 after court fees. I'm just glad its over.

 

[Bones187]

small town cops

I've been to charlston SC many times and it's esentially a very small city/large town. Cop was probably a Camaro owner just hating. The problem with the 05-07 is the damn delay in giving gas vs moving. That sometimes revs an engine. We all know the law was adopted to stop racing of engines and burnouts and such. Not someone from backing up and reving the engine as they back-up. As far as the Cop and "gameface" BS line from above. This is Charleston SC the friendly South not the CITY of LA in Republic of CAli. If a cop gets too friendly comment? What does that mean? He acts like a decent human being? If a cop has a conflict with being too friendly vs writing a ticket than he shouldn't be a cop. A friendly cop can write a ticket just as easily as a hard a$$. I say treat people with respect and how you would want to be treated not some BS "role" to intimidate the dangerous engine revers of the world. As a cop you never know when that civilian is going to save your butt when attacked by a real criminal. I doubt this guy will pull over and help any cops anytime soon. Lastly I am trying to say treat people like humans and 99% of the time things will go smoothly