Stainless Steel Brake Lines

[bishop1911]

Here is the link to the lines I was looking at. I figured I would just bend my own to make sure they fit, and I know I would have to bend the rear lines because I don't have a stock mustang rear. There is no kit I can put on there that will work. Anyway, the description of the part says the line is "double annealed for easy bending and flaring". How "easy" will it be really? Also, does anyone know how many nuts or sleeves will be needed and if anyone has a mapping of the lines? Thanks.

store.summitracing.com/pa...toview=sku

Jon

 

[2nd Mustang]

I've replaced brake lines before with pre-made lines which wasn't too bad.

I've just replaced some front lines off my MC this past week and tried making my own steel lines. It wasn't easy. Being that this is the first time I tried to make my own, I had to practice many times to make the flared endings. Replacing the distribution block was no easy task either.

Good luck.

 

[mustangdave]

The link you posted is not a valid hyperlink and I couldn't find them.

 

[Edbert]

I used factory-bent SS lines from the dist block to all four wheels. But I had to make my own primary lines (MC to prop-valve to distribution block). I chose regular steel over SS since it is so much easier to bend/crimp/flare/seal.

 

[68rustang]

Flaring stainless is the hardest part...

I ordered the premade kit from http://www.rightstuffdetailing.com/ as a starting point for my car. I am using the MC and rear axle from a 95GT and the SSBC adjustable proportioning valve (which Summit now sells as a store brand for $20 less ). So i knew I would have to make my own rear axle lines and body to MC lines. I bought some of the Summit stainless brake line. It is easy to bend, but sucks to flare. I ended up buying a Rigid brand flaring tool that was finally able to give me the proper flares. Most cheap run of the mill flaring tools will not work. The clamping jaws are not hardened and can't "bite" into the stainless. When you try and flare it it will just slide in the anvil.

 

[1320stang]

68rustang is right, it really doesn't matter what material you use, but the proper tool for bending and flaring will save much time and many mismade pieces. These are some of the tools that you really can't go cheap on.

 

[mustangdave]

68, what are they referring to as sleeves? Seems you would just need the proper fitting for what you are connecting to. Also, I have heard that stainless needs a different degree flare to seal; did you do this?

 

[68rustang]

68, what are they referring to as sleeves? Seems you would just need the proper fitting for what you are connecting to.

Where did you see sleeves mentioned?

Also, I have heard that stainless needs a different degree flare to seal; did you do this?

You need to use the same flare as the IF tube nut and seat you are connecting to. In the case of all north american cars that means using a 45* double flare. While researching my project I came across some info alluding to being able to getaway with a 45* single flare on stainless but I couldn't find anything else to corroborate it. I have also read that you can use a 37* single flare backed with a tube sleeve and nut and switch all the fittings to -AN but that would have been a bunch of adapters and what I thought was a hassle. In the end, after purchasing the Rigid flaring tool I was able to make very consistent 45* double flares that matched what was on the lines from Right Stuff.

Some other tips:

When cutting stainless brake line don't use a standard tubing/pipe cutter like you would get at the hardware store. Not only it is a pain in the ass but it will work harden the tube at the cut which you will need to flare. When it is work hardened not only does it make it harder to make an even flare it makes the tube more prone to cracking while flaring. Use an abrasive cut off wheel and clean the cut with a file.

If the flaring tool you plan to use on stainless lines looks like the one pictured:

it won't work. Dig a hole in the backyard and bury it so you aren't tempted to try using it. Before you bury it though take the double flare adapters out of the case and set them aside. The Rigid tool doesn't come with them.

 

[2nd Mustang]

I found out that if the cut end of the tubing is not almost perfectly squared off, you end up bending the little post of the die that inserts into the tubing to make the first flare. I was able to straighten it out, but if it broke, another tool would have to be ordered.

 

[Rusty67]

I once tried using a flare tool like the one in the picture 68rustang posted. I couldn't get the clap tight enough to hold the tubing in place. I tried everything I could and eventually broke the wing nuts that tighten the clamp down.

68rustang which one did you buy, the regular one that ridig makes or the ratcheting one ?

 

[68rustang]

Yes, definitely make sure the end of the cut tube is square. If not the flare will be lopsided or apparently you can damage your tool. I dressed mine with a bench grinder and hand file before flaring.

I once tried using a flare tool like the one in the picture 68rustang posted. I couldn't get the clap tight enough to hold the tubing in place. I tried everything I could and eventually broke the wing nuts that tighten the clamp down.

68rustang which one did you buy, the regular one that ridig makes or the ratcheting one ?

The problem isn't getting the clamp tight enough. It is that the clamp jaws are not hardened and they can't bite into the stainless. Even though the tubing is supposedly annealed. I started out with the ratcheting 458R because at the time it was the only one listed that could do stainless. It worked very well, for single flares. It has an offset cone that "rolls" the flare into the end of the tube so using the double flare adapters is not an option. I returned it and bought the 345 or 345-DL if you want the double flare adpaters, I already had some from my cheap tool so I used those. It is not listed for stainless but in my experience it worked great. Spending $40 on the Rigid was much better than $300-$600 for stainless specific or hydraulic flaring tools.

 

[Rusty67]

I don't want to thread hijack BUT.... here goes

I have talked to some people who are supposedly "the guys" (I really don't like these guys tho) locally to do any type of bending/flaring work on tubing and they say that SS does not need to be double flared. They ended up doing one of my brake lines and it is SS and is not double flared. It does seal quite well but I'm worried about possible failure in the future. Earlier today I was looking for a flaring tool and read a post on the internet that said that SS is suppose to use single flares with different fasteners that come over the flare and reinforce it which I hadn't heard before.

68rustang you were able to do the double flares on the SS lines with the tool you got from Ridgid correct ? if I'm not using these SS specific fasteners then I would imagine the double flare would be a good idea if for nothing other than reliability.

Edit:
After rereading the post I think that guy was talking about aircraft specific stuff because he said 37 degree flares not 45.

Also... sweet mother of mercy this is a sexy tool:
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/...89&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=double,flare

 

[68rustang]

You can supposedly do 37* single flares to interface with AN fittings but you have to use tube nuts and sleeves at all flares. I was going to look into that route if I couldn't get proper 45* double flares. The tube nuts and sleeves aren't stainless specific, something like this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...art=AER-FBM3678&N=700+300081+115&autoview=sku
and
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...art=AER-FBM3674&N=700+300081+115&autoview=sku

Yes, the Eastwood tool is nice, nice and expensive. I couldn't justify the cost when I picked up the Rigid for $40 and it did a nice job.

I can flare steel hardlines with my eyes closed, stainless takes a little work to do right, or a large tool budget.

 

[2nd Mustang]

I bought a cheap double flare set on the web. With shipping costs, I could've bought a better looking set from Sears.

Anyway, I thought I was having issues of holding the tubing in the clamp also, until I found out that you have to tighten both ends of the clamp.

Also, I bought a long pre formed length of 3/16" tubing. It had a seam on the inside running the length of the tubing which also appeared on the inside of the flare. It took many tries to see how much pressure with the flaring tool was needed so that seam would not appear on the flare.

 

[mustangdave]

68, I saw the sleeve and nut comment in the link n your original post: last line in description. I am thorouhjly confused as I had heard s.s. required the 37 degree flare to keep it from splitting.
I'm glad to hear you were succesful. I will be buying that tool and line for experimentation. Thx.

 

[CraigMBA]

I changed all my hard lines with a blingy stainless set from classic tube ten years ago. The stainless lines are really hard to get to seat - you have to way overtorque the fasteners. The classic tube product, however, is fan-tastic.

I am currently redoing my brakes now, again used Classic Tube, but got my pieces in mild steel this time. I'm in California, nothing rusts in the Golden State.

 

[truck90278]

68, what are they referring to as sleeves? Seems you would just need the proper fitting for what you are connecting to. Also, I have heard that stainless needs a different degree flare to seal; did you do this?

Only when going to "AN" fittings, then the angle has to be 37*. double inverted flares are 45* w/or w/out stainless

 

[truck90278]

I don't want to thread hijack BUT.... here goes

I have talked to some people who are supposedly "the guys" (I really don't like these guys tho) locally to do any type of bending/flaring work on tubing and they say that SS does not need to be double flared. They ended up doing one of my brake lines and it is SS and is not double flared. It does seal quite well but I'm worried about possible failure in the future. Earlier today I was looking for a flaring tool and read a post on the internet that said that SS is suppose to use single flares with different fasteners that come over the flare and reinforce it which I hadn't heard before.

68rustang you were able to do the double flares on the SS lines with the tool you got from Ridgid correct ? if I'm not using these SS specific fasteners then I would imagine the double flare would be a good idea if for nothing other than reliability.

Edit:
After rereading the post I think that guy was talking about aircraft specific stuff because he said 37 degree flares not 45.

Also... sweet mother of mercy this is a sexy tool:
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/...89&itemType=PRODUCT&RS=1&keyword=double,flare

"AN" fittings use a single flair and also a small sleeve which the nut goes over. The sleeve has a taper (37*) which in turn goes against the single flair

 

[truck90278]

You can supposedly do 37* single flares to interface with AN fittings but you have to use tube nuts and sleeves at all flares. I was going to look into that route if I couldn't get proper 45* double flares. The tube nuts and sleeves aren't stainless specific, something like this:

http://store.summitracing.com/partd...art=AER-FBM3678&N=700+300081+115&autoview=sku
and
http://store.summitracing.com/partd...art=AER-FBM3674&N=700+300081+115&autoview=sku

Yes, the Eastwood tool is nice, nice and expensive. I couldn't justify the cost when I picked up the Rigid for $40 and it did a nice job.

I can flare steel hardlines with my eyes closed, stainless takes a little work to do right, or a large tool budget.

Just don't put a 37* flair against a 45* fiitting

 

[truck90278]

The suppliers of prefabed lines (Inline tubes, Classic Tubes, etc) provide double flaired SS tubing (45*) for inverted flairs without cracking the SS line. So, it can be flaired to 45*. The 37* flairs is ONLY for the use of AN types of fittings which require the sleeve to support the tubing. As a previous response indicated, when you are learning, you are going to waste a LOT of tubing learning how to bend the tubes. By time you purchase all the tools, benders, flaring tools, you can buy the the preformed lines ready to install for about the same money. We have the prebent tubes for most of our brake lines on our 65, however, we will have to custom bend some to adapt to the MC and the SSBC adjustable valve. I've done tubing on several vehicles and still make a lot of mistakes and having to redo the lines.