PIP Circuit Fault - Need Help

[2manypony's]

Well, at this point I believe the '92 4 banger coupe I bought my son for his 1st car was sitting for lot longer than the previous owner told me and more than likely had not been running the week before like we were told also...

We replaced the bad electric fuel pump, the Constant Control Relay Module, the ignition switch which was falling apart and several fuses just to get the electric and fuel system up and going. Most everything seems to be working fine now. We are getting fuel and spark at the plugs.

But, I'm still doing this

The car will still not start at this point. It turns over fine but will not fire. I ran the codes again at this point and everything passed except for a code 211 which is the PIP (Profile Ignition Pickup Circuit Fault) This is on a Distributor Less Ignition System with an 8 plug head. I had the local auto parts place run a diagnostic on the control module and it checked out according to them. We installed new plugs and wires just to cover our bases also.

We pulled the timing belt cover to check it out and make sure it was there, not worn too bad, etc... Seemed to look pretty new and could tell someone had put paint marks on the gears and block at some point, so I'm assuming it's been changed at some point.

Here's a kicker though. I did a compression check on the #1 cylinder yesterday while trying to find TDC so we could check the timing belt installation. I only got like 30lbs. Thought I was going nuts and was tired so we stopped for the night. This morning I was thinking about it and thought it wouldn't have read correctly since I actually screwed the gauge into the exhaust plug hole. So, I tried it quick this morning on the opposite drivers side plug. I was pretty much getting ZIP/Zero Compression. How is this possible?

It seem like every little part for these 2.3 4-cyl engines is pretty dang expensive. Can anyone tell me how to check out a Crankshaft Possition Sensor if the car won't start at all. I don't just want to replace it also seeing it's $117.00 for that little thing.

The reason we helped him with this car was a little less power, better fuel mileage, cheaper insurance, etc... And I've seen too many 5.0 Stangs with front end damage that a younger person was driving!!!!!!! But, a few more electrical parts on this thing and I'll keep thinking we should have just dropped in a 302 that I have sitting there ready to go.

Can anyone tell me what my next step should be to check this out. These 2.3 4-cyl are new to me and my son doesn't have too much confidence in us getting his car running at this point. Thanks!!

 

[goland55]

To test the crankshaft position sensor the chiltons says to use a digital volt meter set to a proper scale to read 5v AC and probe across the Cylinder identification terminal (should be dark blue/orange and connects to the engine computer at pin 5 and the ignition control module at pin 2) and ground. The sensor is ok if the voltage reading varies more than 0.1v AC with the engine running at varying RPM.

Since you can't get the car running I think cranking it over will suffice.

The low compression in the cylinder strikes me as odd though. Hopefully it's just a matter of the cam timing being off due to the cam jumping a tooth on the timing belt or something.

I have some instructions that I was given a few years ago on this forum for doing the timing belt on a 2.3...it worked on my 88 merkur but I'm not sure if it's any different for the dual plug 2.3's as I've never done a timing belt on one. The cam gear, auxiliary gear and crank gear are all marked from the factory with (if I remember correctly) a dot of white paint or something like that. At TDC on cylinder 1, the cam gear's mark should point directly at the center of the aux gear. The aux gear's mark should point directly at the center of the cam gear. The crank gear's mark should be pointing directly at the center of the aux gear.

I would definitely make sure you're getting consistent compression numbers on all cylinders. It should not matter whether you use the exhaust or intake side spark plug hole to test from...they're both going to the combustion chamber. One is positioned more towards the exhaust valve, the other closer to the intake valve.

There's no sense in throwing lots of expensive parts at the car if the pistons or similar could be junk. Know what I mean?

 

[GTPhreak]

I'd be willing to bet the cam timing is off at least a little bit. I'd also check the rest of the cylinders to make sure they are building compression. If all are the same, then you know its not just 1 cylinder building no pressure. If it comes down to it, I have a spare DIS module and Crank pickup module I took off of my old 93 motor I would be willing to part with.

 

[2manypony's]

I'll start with that.

Thanks Guy's! I had to leave town today for three days for a meeting out of state, but will double check the timing belt and then the compression on the rest of the cylinders to see what I get. Hopefully by this weekend. I'm hoping it's just the belt and it had jumped a gear, huh? I'll let you know what happens.

 

[Stinger]

Don't buy any more parts until you get the compression up in the 150+psi range...you'll just be wasting money otherwise. Best case the cam timing is causing it, worst case it's a headgasket.

 

[2manypony's]

What do you guy's think now?

O.K. Both me and my son needed the experience in changing out a timing belt on these 2.3's, so we went ahead and put one on it while we were checking out the old belt and the timing.

Guess what? It still doesn't start.

Here's the bad news though and you guys tell me what you think. Will a blown head gasket keep it from starting? I did a compression check on all four cylinders and here is what I came up with. Obviously not good!

#1 cylinder had 15lbs and bled off to 0lbs
#2 cylinder had 30lbs and held
#3 cylinder had 68lbs and held
#4 cylinder had 135lbs and bled down to 130lbs

Head Gasket?

 

[goland55]

If it can only fire on 1 cylinder then ya, the car probably wouldn't be able to start. I blew up a couple pistons on one of my merkurs once and was able to get it to start but to run very very roughly by giving it some gas. That was with two good pistons.

I doubt cylinders 1,2 and 3 can fire with such little compression.

 

[2manypony's]

Head Gasket was blown!

Well guy's, Thanks! We tore into it tonight and in 2 1/2 hours had the head laying on the ground and inspected. The head gasket had blown out between the cylinders and it looks like a slightly warped head also. Taking it to the machine shop tomorrow and we'll see what happens. Thanks for the help!!

 

[2manypony's]

Update

Just wanted to let you guys know that once we got the engine put back together with a new head gasket and the having the head machined, she fired right up and runs good. Thanks!!!!!!

 

[goland55]

Great to hear the news! If you run into anything else don't be afraid to post it.