Question about 351's....I want to shank the search function..

[xr8d302]

Ok, yeah, I tried to search for this, all I got was stuff about transmissions...

luckily, that's one of my questions...

As most of you know, I've been at a standstill with my mustang project due to lack of budget and a few other issues. I have no plans of forgetting about the car, and I'd love to get this done before I get to Afghanistan in November.

Soooo, today, I get some info from a buddy about a local shop that has a crate 351 sitting in the back of their shop. I call'em and they tell me it's been there for 3 years, but it's been cranked over every 6 months to make sure it's not ceased up, and it runs strong, having less than 100 kilometers on it. That's less than 60 miles...it was put into a 79 T-bird, driven for about 3 days, then the guy decided to move up to something much bigger.

Now, the guy who's selling it isn't the owner of the T-bird, but the guy never came back for it, and it's been 3 years, so they're willing to part with it for cheap.

Just to answer the question before it's asked, this is not a prettied up engine, it's basic looking with cast grey and black, just like our original engines. I can deal with this in time though....

Question time..

First, where do I read up on this engine to find out if it's a cleveland or windsor? Anything on the engine I can look for?

Does any 351 mate up to a T5? It's attached to a C6 right now, which will come with it, but then I can sell that to some mud loving 4x4.

It's carbed....easy to switch to fuel injected, or would I be wasting time?

What should I be looking for on this engine after 3 years...I'm guessing a tear down, clean up and rebuild would be a good idea, but if this engine is half as clean on the inside as it is on the outside, I won't be too worried. There are small bits of rust on the valve covers, but the rest of the engine looks to be pristine...besides a little dust that I wiped off, it looks brand new...

What should I offer this guy? He wants it out of the shop, it's just taking up space, and he's willing to sell cheap, but told me to make an offer...

I'm sure there's more questions I'm going to have in the near future, but this engine won't be going anywhere quick, they're not advertising it openly, I just got this info from a friend that knows this guy well.

Any advice on this would be great, because this is a diamond in the rough that I could possibly get for dirt cheap...

thanks fella's, as always

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

The 351 Windsor or Cleveland will bolt to a T5, so that's not a worry, but you gotta find out which block it is to see if it's going to work with EFI. If it's a Windsor, you'll just need an EFI intake and truck distributor to convert it over from carb. Ask him what his rock bottom price is on the engine, I bet he'll throw something out there. As long as it's a known running engine with a fresh rebuild, I wouldn't go into it at all unless there was some sort of problem with it.

 

[final5-0]

When you look at a 351 Windsor ... they look V E R Y much like your every day,
run of the mill, 302 5.0 motor

A very easy way to tell a 351 Windsor from a 302 5.0 is focus on
the amount of distance between the top of the front china wall
and the top of the timing cover

It will be about 1/4 to 1/3 more distance on a Windsor

Kinda like ... two fingers thick as opposed to three fingers thick

Grady

 

[xr8d302]

Thanks so far, fella's...I do appreciate the expertise, since I'm pretty dumb when it comes to the 351 in general. What I do know is that it will make more power right off the bat, and there's alot more potential with the extra cubes that can be taken out of it. Here is where Nate and others might wanna chime in haha

As soon as I can get up there to grab some pictures, I'll try to get some up on here

 

[xr8d302]

The 351 Windsor or Cleveland will bolt to a T5, so that's not a worry, but you gotta find out which block it is to see if it's going to work with EFI. If it's a Windsor, you'll just need an EFI intake and truck distributor to convert it over from carb. Ask him what his rock bottom price is on the engine, I bet he'll throw something out there. As long as it's a known running engine with a fresh rebuild, I wouldn't go into it at all unless there was some sort of problem with it.

From what this gentleman has told me, there's absolutely no problems with this engine, that it's brand new and has less than a good highway cruise of kilometers on it, so I'm pretty confident that it should be in ok shape...I just wasn't sure about parts that could wear out over time or whatnot.

It's great to hear that it will bolt right up to the T5, but will there be any modifications needed to the bellhousing, or will I have to buy something else entirely? I was reading up on one site about the conversion, and I might have to make some small changes if I do purchase it, but I think, dollar for dollar, it'd be worth the money if I can scoop this engine up for cheap

I appreciate the advice on the asking amount, I'll definitely try that and see what he comes up with...I just hope it's as low as I'm hoping it will be, because he sounds like he just really wants it out of his shop, it's taking up a crapload of room

thanks again

 

[bimmertech]

don't forget the hood(prolly), headers, intake, fuel rail mod(no biggie), dizzy(previously mentioned).

its prolly not a roller cam, so if you want to swap cams later just keep that in mind $$$$.

i think the bell is a direct bolt-up.

i'd do it, its a better block and has more cubes--win win.

 

[95Mustang302]

to drop this in you will need a dist, intake, headers, and to swap over all your acc stuff. Its a fairly straight forward swap. The t5 will bolt directly to it with no problems, however you will need a 28 oz flywheel which is about 250 bux, and also a 28oz balancer. Bear in mind though that you WILL need to get a better trans in good time, the t5 is a glass jar the way it is, and the torque from the 351 will turn the inside of that t5 to a chunky milkshake. Also, as someone already pointed out if you want to run a roller cam you will need the linkbar lifters that crane and comp make, and their about 400 dollars, don't waste your time with a reduce base circle cam as they are weaker and that would not be the part of an engine you want to snap. The biggest issue is probably a new hood, ESPECIALLY since you had your stocker painted to match the car you will ahve to get another hood and get it painted to match.

In all honesty for the money your going to spend on a decent 351 swap you could just as well get a vortech or some other blower for cheaper. If you keep your eyes open you can get a vortech for 1500 if you wait till winter. I know you want to get it done now, but one thing I've learned with this hobby is that good things really do come to those who wait. I was going to do this swap this winter but have since changed my mind and I'm now putting on a small blower for now, just because its easier in the long run for me.

In the end its going to be your call, just make sure you look at all your options before you dive in head first.

 

[xr8d302]

Hey, definitely appreciate the sound advice, Derek.

Some of the things you've pointed out are very helpful, and I've come to the realization that, although I'd love it to be done by the winter time, this project probably won't be done until after I get back from tour.

The financial side of things isn't bothering me right now, because my engine is completely torn down, and all the work required to rebuild my engine to a sound peice of machinery, plus the purchase of a blower, would probably cost as much as this engine, plus the things I'd have to add to it to make it work properly.

I think, at this point, the question isn't so much of a "should I buy this engine" issue, but more of a "how hard will this be, and how much should I be putting into it" kind of thing.

Bottom line is that I'll have more cubes, and more potential in the end. Afghanistan pays alot of money, and this time I don't have a money sponge at home to buy gifts for every two weeks...(i can't blame her, alot of it was me just being a nice guy and buying her stuff...but she screwed me over, so I'll use the word sponge freely)

6 months of tax free pay, plus danger and hardship pay, and nowhere to spend it, means that I'll have ample money to make the necessary 351 adjustments while I'm over there, and then have it all ready when I get home, slam the engine in, and pray to the gods that everything runs well and I can get that thing back on the road.

I know this can be done, and I'm so ridiculously frustrated in not having the car out this year, but as you said, good things come to us patient types, and I really hope that at this point next year, I'll be driving around in a 351 powered two tone GT.

Just saying that gave me a slight tent.

 

[davetrue]

um, the difference in a 351 and a 302 are the distance between head to head on the intake manifold. 302 is shorter than a 351. i have a 1984 gt w/ a 351w. the intake on a 351 is much wider.

 

[Pokageek]

Decide what you want and don't let anyone steer you away. A blower on a 351 makes much more power than one on a 302. Yes a 302 will be less aggravating lol.

 

[The O.G.]

truck dizzy or efi truck dizzy?

and is the gear diff on 302 351 dizzy ?

 

[Vipersix]

I didn't see anyone answer your very first question so I'll do that for you now: The easiest way to identify a Windsor vs. Cleveland is the heads. The Cleveland has big-block heads whereas the Windsor has small-block heads. So count the valve cover bolts; six means you have a Windsor, eight means you have either a Cleveland or Midland (Modified). Another easy identifier is the thermostat housing. The Cleveland is a dry-block which means the thermostat goes into the block rather than the intake.

Switching to fuel injection is a pain in the butt unless you are electrically gifted or plan on investing a ton of time and money in the project. The positive aspect is the similarity between the 302 and 351 blocks. This allows for a great array of interchangeability of parts and makes it a bit less of a magic trick.

Good luck.