Edelbrock or AFR Cylinder Heads on my 393 Stroker?

[wickedmach1]

I thought I made up my mind and would go with the AFR 205 for my 393 stroker. Then I started looking at the Edelbrock Victor Jr. cylinder heads. I know Edelbrock make pretty good quality parts and I know nothing about AFR. I am lloking at more than just the head casting but focussing on the springs, valves, retainers, ect... What do you guys think? Below is the engine combo I originally put together.

Block: 1969 351w
Bore = 4.030”
Deck Height = 9.453”

Crankshaft: SCAT 393 Forged 4340
Stroke = 3.850

Pistons: Probe SRS Forged
Piston Head Volume = 22.0cc Dish

Rods: Probe Lightweight 4340 I-Beam
Length = 6.250”

Cylinder Head Gasket: .040” thick

Cylinder Head Gasket Bore: 4.080”

Cylinder Head Combustion Chamber: 58cc

Deck Clearance: -.002

Compression: = 10.133

 

[Vinyl66]

I have used neither head but have researched both. The Vic Jr's are good heads and work very well with a little porting. The AFR 205's have better valvetrain, flow more, and most importantly will make more power. They do cost more but you can not upgrade the Vic. Jr's to compete with the AFR's for the few hundred dollar difference.
Someone may chime in with real worlld experience but from what I have read about each head, you can not go wrong with the 205's on a stroked windsor.

 

[mrmustangman357]

the afrs are the best performing out of the box head you will ever buy for the money, short of a custome builder doing work for your specific app. When looking at a product, I like to know who I do business with and how much expertise they bring to the table. I met up with the AFR guys at route 66 dragway and they know their stuff! They have a super thick deck that virtually eliminates head gasket failure, the ports are amazing, and the casting and machining is done right here in the US. The edelbrock stuff is great (I personally met Vic edelbrock on power tour:
View attachment 371373
But those heads are cast, whereas the AFRs are all CNC machined. For the extra cash I would definitely recommend Air Flow Research. You will not be disappointed!

 

[Cyclone]

I have a 308 cid engine, that used to have World product heads 1.94/1.60 valves
and I swapped them for a set of AFR 185 Heads and Made an additional 72+ Rear Wheel Horse Power with NO other modifications, I als have the same ones on my 351 windsor, The are Great Heads!

 

[gsxrken]

I went with AFR 185s for my 408W and am very happy with them (530HP, 515TQ, and 117MPH in the 1/4), but after some discussion with my machinist, I did toss the 3/8" studs and valve springs they came with, and upgraded to 7/16ths ARP studs and springs from my cam manufacturer. He said none of the alum heads come with premium springs, but that he always voted for AFR heads if his client could swing them.

 

[mrmustangman357]

yeah i recall hearing something about the valvesprings. AFR does sell a rev kit with special springs and other stuff if you want to build it for high rpm also. check the website

 

[CraigMBA]

AFR will put in whatever springs you want if you call and request them. Nobody does, but you can get them.

You're machinst was right. They are (out of the box) for somebody who's going to do occasional 1/4 mile strip and street action.

 

[Rusty67]

AFR heads are hard to beat. They are definately worth the cash.

 

[Cyclone]

When you order the Heads, Be sure to have them ordered with the Severe Duty Valve & Spring Upgrade, it costs 130.00 extra

 

[danny clemens]

I'm building a 408 now and bought the 185 AFRs. I'm having second thoughts about them after doing some reading on a different forum. A lot of those guys think the Canfield 195 heads are great. If I had it to do over again I'd probably buy the Vic Jr's mainly because of price but my car is mainly going to be used for the street. I'd just clean the ports up on the Vic Jr's and put them on. I don't think the 185 AFRs are a bad choice (look at what gsxrken's engine is doing) though. I think if I had purchased a bigger head I would have been better off . It all depends on what you want to do with your car.

 

[wickedmach1]

Thanks for all the great information but you guys are confusing me. AFR 185's on a 408 stroker? That head to me belongs on a 302 or stock 351w. It seems that the 393 or 408 would need to breath????

 

[htwheelz67]

afr's are good but they do have some shortcomings springs, retainers etc....the victors are very good but a little less perf wise than the 205, have you looked at canfield heads? I'm using 205 ported TW's on my 408 as I already had the TW's on my prior engine. You can get into some canfields for less than AFR's and they will perform better

 

[BullittStangV8]

I would call AFR and ask which they would think would fit better, thne 185's or the 205's. Im betting on the 205's.

 

[danny clemens]

Thanks for all the great information but you guys are confusing me. AFR 185's on a 408 stroker? That head to me belongs on a 302 or stock 351w. It seems that the 393 or 408 would need to breath????

I agree that the 205s would be better than the 185s for a 408. I just bought my heads before I researched enough.

 

[Brad's 70]

longer runners for more rpms

 

[10secgoal]

I would always say for out of the box, the AFR's would be the best choice. If you get custom head porting, there aren't worth it, it kinda defeats the purpose. If you want a huge radical cam, I would stay away from every comapny just about, especially AFR and Canfields. They use a poorer quality aluminum which is weaker and a pain to weld if ever needed. Another reason is the head studs tend to just rip out of the head. And I believe AFR runs the .750 deck to make up for the weaker aluminum used, but it is good advertising. Edelbrocks stuff is all heli coiled except for the spark plugs.
Don't get me wrong, I love my AFR's, and I'm shooting 6-700 hp. but I have a small cam. I have also already lifted the head on one cylinder before, and had to heli coil all the exaust bolts because they galled the first time I went to replace the header gasket.

 

[mrmustangman357]

really? What is the material AFR uses as opposed to edelbrock? Perhaps AFR uses the particular material to help with machining operations as opposed to edelbrock's cast stuff. Also, have you considered using Twisted Wedge heads? Those are a cheaper alternative to the AFRs but I recall the valvesprings are limited to a lower lift. Some also say that twisted wedge heads warp? Anyone can substantiate that?

 

[ashford]

afr machine work and aluminum is top notch, but the steel parts are questionable. i had 3 visibly bent rocker studs and about half of the rest i could feel wobble when i turned them out. the shipping box had no damage. the pushrod guides are a little loose on on the pushrods compared to my old com guides. adjusting them to center both rocker tips on the stems didn't happen had to use my old comp guides. my final bitch are the valve spring dampers, at first i had valvetrain noise the engine didnt have beforethe head swap. i tried different pushrods to both satisfy the half lift method and the centered on tip method. i also adjusted the rockers so many times the locknuts turned into regular nuts, then i tried roller rockers on 7/16 studs, nothing helped. when i changed my oil for the first time afterwards it looked like a pearl brown paint being poured into the oil barel. i tore off the valve covers to inspect, no wear on the pushrods or guides pushrod holes or rocker arms. the only thing i noticed was when cranking over i could hear clicks. then i noticed wear on the damper springs and what seemed to the ends of them snapping into the outer spring groove when releasing. later i put the same heads on a different enging i had the same exact problems.

 

[Vinyl66]

The 205's now come with Peterson solid roller valve springs, hardened ten degree locks and retainers, lightweight 8mm valve stems, and are factory ported.
Joe Sherman Racing did a test on a 10.5 compression solid roller cammed 347 and the AFR205's showed a 50hp gain over the Vic Jr's at 7200 rpm. This was on a 347

The 185's will work on a stroked Windsor but if you want the most out of it and best bang for the buck get the AFR205's. I love my 185's but the 205 are a more than a small step better.

 

[10secgoal]

really? What is the material AFR uses as opposed to edelbrock? Perhaps AFR uses the particular material to help with machining operations as opposed to edelbrock's cast stuff. Also, have you considered using Twisted Wedge heads? Those are a cheaper alternative to the AFRs but I recall the valvesprings are limited to a lower lift. Some also say that twisted wedge heads warp? Anyone can substantiate that?

I don't know the exact difference, but you can see it when you weld it. It's VERY porous. Aluminum has to be CLEAN to weld. Every time it gets hot enough to weld, all the crap flows out of the porosity. TW heads I have seen like to crack between the seats, and can cause the motor to have a wonderful time turning off because of hot spots. Jadesville can testify on that one.
I would go 205 if it were me, even having seen what I have. When I get the stroker and a crazy cam, the AFR's will go bye-bye.