restomod steering/suspension question

[okcop]

What can I expect by upgrading the front suspension on my 68? I want a smoother ride, but want to retain the same stock ride height. I want to eliminate bump steer and I want the car to be more responsive when steering. It seems to have a lot of play in the wheel in stock form. I'm considering one of the many tubular A-arm/coil over conversions with a rack and pinion kit. Will this make a noticable difference or would I be better served spending this money on the interior, motor, or some other aspect of the car. I have a long list of things I want to do with this car and the front suspension is one of the main things on the list.
For those of you who recommend this upgrade, do you recommend any manufactures in particular?

 

[Rusty67]

This stuff as been covered quite a bit by different people. I would recomend taking a look at opentracker's stuff. Try searching the forums. Google opentracker and check out his stuff.

 

[mo'factor]

suspension

Most after market parts for the suspension of a mustang are made for handling not ride quality. If your suspension is very badly worn stock replacement stuff is about as good a ride quality as you're going to get. You could try replacing the shocks and springs for better ride. You can replace the steering unit with a flaming river one for better steering. Bump steer shouldn't be that much of a problem unless the car has been lowered.

 

[Opentracker]

The three things that will help give the car a smoother ride with better steering and handling are roller spring perches, roller idler arm and a large (1 1/8") front sway bar. If the car has stock rubber bushings in the spring perches and idler arm, and the car has a stock sway bar, the change will be huge. I'll be glad to help. Send us an email to: [email protected]

John

 

[2bav8]

Don't forget a set of adjustable length strut rods with heim joints John.

 

[Big_B]

It seems to have a lot of play in the wheel in stock form.

I would highly suggest adjusting the steering box as your first step, as it is free an easy to do.

 

[S-Car-Go]

I agree with the posts above but wanted to add a couple of points.

If you have a bump steer problem on a stock suspension, you probably have worn out parts (tie rods, ball joints, etc) or a really bad alignment.

You don't loose much ride hight with "the shelby drop". Well worth it.

If they are in your budget, I like the Bilstien shocks from Miaer Racing. They will work with stock springs.

Stengthen the frame! Subframe connectors, export brace and monte carlo bar. This will actually improve the ride because the suspension will travel instead of the frame flexing. This is immediately noticable.

 

[okcop]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate you helping out a newby here. The car does have the flaming river steering box, the entire front end is only 2 years old and was replaced with all stock replacement parts. I'm trying hard not to comapre it to my 06 GT, but I truely think I can improve the 68 over how it currently handles/rides.

 

[Opentracker]

Another thing is the alignment. If the car is set to factory settings, it won't drive well at all. As Matt said, the adj. strut rods are a big help too but at $340pr. they are a hard hit on the budget. We don't run them on our daily drivers.

Again, the rubber bushings are what makes the cars bounce and give poor feedback to the driver. For around $400 you can make the car drive much, much better. If it were me I would do:

Roller spring perchs
Roller idler arm
1 1/8 front sway bar
Performance alignment

The car will drive more like your 06 GT with these 4 mods.

You can make your own roller perches from a kit if you have a welder, you can get the idler arm from most vendors. For your car the part numbers are Moog K8158 for P/S cars and Moog K8161 for manual steer cars. The sway bars are available from most of the vendors but I like the ones from Mustangs Plus. They are made here in Calif. and are powdercoated black instead on the Gold Cad. you get from Addco. The alignment settings we use are:

0 - Camber

2deg. positive caster

1/8" to-in.

It is important to keep the camber and caster the same on both sides and don't let the alignment guy set the car for road crown.

It doesn't take a lot to get these cars to handle well and drive more like a modern car. Just a few well thought out pieces.

John

 

[Clarko]

0 camber, huh.
I cannot disagree more with that statement.
Call Marlon at Marlo's Frame and Alignment 818-341-0940.
He has done numerous magazine articles (Mustang and Fords, Mustang Monthly, etc.) on alignment and suspension.

I do agree that it's not hard to get a classic Ford to handle well.
Even my 69 F-250 handles great for an almost 40 year old truck after he aligned it and added sway bars.

 

[Rusty67]

0 camber, huh.
I cannot disagree more with that statement.
Call Marlon at Marlo's Frame and Alignment 818-341-0940.
He has done numerous magazine articles (Mustang and Fords, Mustang Monthly, etc.) on alignment and suspension.

I do agree that it's not hard to get a classic Ford to handle well.
Even my 69 F-250 handles great for an almost 40 year old truck after he aligned it and added sway bars.

I think John knows a fair bit more about Mustangs and how to align them for what being that he track races and BUILDS parts for them. Remember, this thread isn't about all out performance, the OP wants comfort as well.

 

[Cyclone]

I have been building my own suspension for the classic Mustang & Fords for 30 years minimum, Your Court Jeff Ford,
Matter of Fact, It will be a feature article in the October 2007 Issue of Mustang Monthly

 

[grego37]

the more you put into it , the more you'll get out of it.

I agree with the above mentioned reccomendations

and if you want to go further:
Export brace
Monte Carlo bar
Subframe connectors

and if money is no object:
Global West or TCP upper/lower arms
aftermarket Rack and pinion

lower your car
and a good set of the widest tires you can fit

 

[bnickel]

my recommendations are:

1: Opentracker Roller perches www.opentrackerracingproducts.com
2: Randalls' Rack rack and pinion kit www.randallsrack.com
3: better strut rods, either the Street Or Track rods that opentracker sells or the new design TCP rods, anything is better than the stock ones though
4: Opentracker's alignment specs
5: if the budget allows, export brace, monte carlo bar and subframe connectors.
6: since comfort is your biggest concern and handling is secondary get some prgressive rate coil springs and some soft shocks, either KYB GR-2's or regular old Monroe Gas-Matics, i've heard the Edelbrock shocks are awesome too but i haven't tried them yet and they are pretty expensive.

 

[S-Car-Go]

I had a set of the Edelbrock shocks and didn't like them. The roads are bad in the bay area. Edel's are pretty stiff. Plus they are a PITA to install (upside down) For that kind of $$$ the Bilstiens are far superior.

If you can find them, the old Gabrial Stryder adjustables were great shocks.

 

[bnickel]

I had a set of the Edelbrock shocks and didn't like them. The roads are bad in the bay area. Edel's are pretty stiff. Plus they are a PITA to install (upside down) For that kind of $$$ the Bilstiens are far superior.

If you can find them, the old Gabrial Stryder adjustables were great shocks.

i only wish i could find some Stryders, thery were being repro'd for a while but no longer apparently.

 

[Opentracker]

0 camber, huh.
I cannot disagree more with that statement.
Call Marlon at Marlo's Frame and Alignment 818-341-0940.
He has done numerous magazine articles (Mustang and Fords, Mustang Monthly, etc.) on alignment and suspension.

I do agree that it's not hard to get a classic Ford to handle well.
Even my 69 F-250 handles great for an almost 40 year old truck after he aligned it and added sway bars.

I talked with Marlon a short while back, nice guy and he know's his stuff. ORP does a lot of street, weekend car, and track stuff. On a street car (daily driver) I want the tire flat to the ground (no camber). If the car is used for a weekend car, with some back road curves, then you add more neg. camber. Camber can be an issue, I like to have camber set to the drivers use of a street car so the tires wear even.

My weekend car is a '66 Mustang coup with 1-deg. neg camber on both sides. The tires wear even because I drive the wheels off of that car. My daily car is a '64 Falcon, it has 0 camber on both sides and tire wear is even . My wifes track car has 2-deg. of neg. camber and she wears the outside edge off the tires. Time for more camber on that one.

John

 

[Renato]

Will this make a noticable difference or would I be better served spending this money on the interior, motor, or some other aspect of the car./QUOTE]

There have been many excellent suggestions/recommendations already. What ever you decide to do, make sure that you like the way it drives, otherwise all the other stuff is meaningless.

 

[Dothang67]

.. you can get the idler arm from most vendors. For your car the part numbers are Moog K8158 for P/S cars and Moog K8161 for manual steer cars.

Does this Moog idler arm has the same design as the roller idler arm you are selling John? or is yours improved in another way?

 

[Opentracker]

Does this Moog idler arm has the same design as the roller idler arm you are selling John? or is yours improved in another way?

It's the same arm. Each end is greasable and has what Moog calles a gusher bearing. It's a much better design than the dual rubber bushing unit the cars came with.

The K8161 and K8158 arms are for the 67-70 cars only. The early cars use a roller idler arm made from a Moog K8106 idler arm. That arm we have machined and fitted with a roller bearing idler arm kit.

John