Doing Shelby drop

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Actually, as has already been pointed out Carroll Shelby never invented the "drop"
It was developed by Klaus Arning, a Ford suspension engineer, for use on the Ford Factory Rally Team Falcons, 63-64-65. It was part of the "Tech", Ford turned over to CS, for the GT 350. Thats why so many of us refer to it as the "Arning Drop"
Glen, you'll have to watch yourself, the guys in this forum are pretty sharp.

Well, I have been on classic or vintage Mustang forums for over 12 years now since I got my 65, and have about 30 thousand posts. And, I have never heard of an Arning drop or a UCA drop. You may be right, but I have just never heard of the Shelby drop referred to as any of those. Now, who is "Us?"
 
Well I've heard it called all 3 of those names before...

And the difference between the two templates is how far back the new holes are placed. The 66 template shows the holes dropped and relocated back 1/8" while the 67+ template shows the holes simply dropped.
 
By saying "us" I'm only recognizing a broadly accepted termonology, being used on any of the Mustang forums I frequent.
I applaude you on having posted 30k+times, though that in itself doesn't qualify you as an expert.
As a high school kid of 16 years, I was hanging on the chain link fence, holding back spectators, at Green Valley Raceway, in Smithfield Texas. On Feb 14 1965. You know, what went on there, that day don't you?
Ken Miles drove the GT 350 in its first race ever. I've always been enthralled, by Shelby's, their lore & history. Sports Car Graphic Magazine was my bible, and I devoured all I could from it. Heck I even remember, some of it. Though, that doesn't make me an expert in itself. But the Rally Falcons, at Monte Carlo 1964, & the Tour de France Mustangs of 1965, had the "Arning Drop".
If you havent heard of that before, possibly your Knowledge of 12 years, has a few gaps in it. I've had a 65 2+2 of one sort or another since 1983, and I'm still learning things, I havent heard of before.
Glen, Its just a matter of learning more Tech.
 
And I thank you Turbo. That is good to know. I was a college student at UT Austin back when the first 65 Mustang was displayed on the floor of the
Ford house in Austin, and I remember telling myself that I would own one of those one day.
 
Well, I have been on classic or vintage Mustang forums for over 12 years now since I got my 65, and have about 30 thousand posts. And, I have never heard of an Arning drop or a UCA drop. You may be right, but I have just never heard of the Shelby drop referred to as any of those. Now, who is "Us?"
Don't be so shy, in fact pat yourself on the back whenever the opportunity presents itself. But also realize that some of the people on this forum have been involved with vintage Mustangs since they were new Mustangs.
 
No One has really seen them yet, and they are saying that everyone elses are better, I don't get that either, Not here to argue.

Please don't misunderstand, I am in no way trying to argue with you or belittle your product, I am sure it is a quality piece that will inhanse the performance of many Mustangs. My hang up was with the "50 times better" comment :)
 
I got Degins (Dennis) kit. Looks like it is all there and all I need to do is take my Advil and Glucosamine and get to work. Both those templates look the same to me. What is the difference between the 65-66 and the 67 up template?

I have herd really good things about his disc brake swap. If you want a really good trick for removing the ball joints make one of these
jointtool.jpg

You can take the nuts off the ball joints, place this tool between the two studs and expand the tool. The ball joints will pop loose with out having to use a pickle fork, having to pound on the end of the ball joint with a hammer, or damaging them. There are detailed instructions on how to make one (not that it is complicated :) ) at the bottom of my homemade spring compressor page. http://home.bresnan.net/%7Edazed/spring
 

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Hi guy's sorry I'm late. When I came up with my roller perch design in 2003, it got a lot of bashing, it's nothing new. I wish Marlon all the best.

I have been a long time advocate of moving the upper ball joint rearward instead of moving the lower ball joint forward to get more caster on a performance driven or track car. With the spindle mounted right next to the lower ball joint on the steering knuckle, moving the lower ball joint forward changes the wheelbase much more than moving the upper ball joint rearward. That in itself can cause some issues with the car, tire clearance being one of them.

We have done testing on a few 67-70 cars where we moved the upper ball joint rearward instead of moving the lower arm forward to add caster. What we did was add a single, or a couple of shims (we used washers) under the front bolt on a 67-70 Mustang. Same idea as the early cars used to get more caster by moving the upper ball joint rearward. It works well. The 67-70 cars had more caster without moving the lower ball joint forward and they drove great. No issues at all. We even did a test where we drilled the holes 1/8" rearwards instead of straight down on a 68 coup, like you do to the early cars. What happend with that is that we had to peen the rear of each shock tower to give more room for the grease gun. No more than a few hammer blows. Again, the testing was done on track or performance driven cars. The owner was very happy with the results. It let's you run a larger front tire than you could if you moved the lower arm forward alone to achieve the same amount of caster. None of this is very noticeable in the tech line either so it's almost vintage legal! Fun stuff!



John
 
Question for Tubo

Actually, as has already been pointed out Carroll Shelby never invented the "drop"
It was developed by Klaus Arning, a Ford suspension engineer, for use on the Ford Factory Rally Team Falcons, 63-64-65. It was part of the "Tech", Ford turned over to CS, for the GT 350. Thats why so many of us refer to it as the "Arning Drop"
Glen, you'll have to watch yourself, the guys in this forum are pretty sharp.

Hi Tubo,
Quick question:
I've read in a few Mustang books, and also heard the comment made by respected Mustang enthusiasts over the years, that Klaus Arning actually designed the lowered position of the UCA to work in harmoney with the IRS being developed fo the Mustang at the same time. And that, as you stated, the first racing use was in the Rally Falcons.
Since this came from people whom I respect, I've pretty much "parroted" this comment over the 30+ years of my involvment with Mustangs, and now am questioning the validity of my information.
Do you have anything that confirms the design was specifically for the Rally cars?
I hate when I post mis-information, and would prefer to be corrected now.
Thank you Sir!
 
Well, I have been on classic or vintage Mustang forums for over 12 years now since I got my 65, and have about 30 thousand posts. And, I have never heard of an Arning drop or a UCA drop. You may be right, but I have just never heard of the Shelby drop referred to as any of those. Now, who is "Us?"

Arning drop here.
Also heard UCA drop, and the notorious, erroneous, Shelby drop.
 
Hi Tubo,
Quick question:
I've read in a few Mustang books, and also heard the comment made by respected Mustang enthusiasts over the years, that Klaus Arning actually designed the lowered position of the UCA to work in harmoney with the IRS being developed fo the Mustang at the same time. And that, as you stated, the first racing use was in the Rally Falcons.
Since this came from people whom I respect, I've pretty much "parroted" this comment over the 30+ years of my involvment with Mustangs, and now am questioning the validity of my information.
Do you have anything that confirms the design was specifically for the Rally cars?
I hate when I post mis-information, and would prefer to be corrected now.
Thank you Sir!

Arning did develop the drop as part of a performance suspension package that did include IRS. Many 63 and 64 Falcons were tested on and it was these cars that the Mustang IRS was installed. 4 or 5 cars (all falcons but 1) got the original Ford IRS put under them.
OriginalMustangIRS.jpg
 

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Opentracker,

Speaking of improving suspension designs...
Is it true you have a new roller spring perch design you are working on?
Thought I heard something about a new design a little bit ago.


It's true. We have three new roller spring perch designs. The roller perch we sell now will called a street roller perch. The other three will be an Autocross roller perch, a double roller drag racing perch and a double roller road racing perch. The double roller perches will let the shock pivot on it's own set of bearings, independent of the set the spring rides on. The testing is being done right now. I don't have any photo's to share but they are cool looking.

We have some other new stuff in the works too, like a page for Falcons only.


John
 
Hi Tubo,
Quick question:
I've read in a few Mustang books, and also heard the comment made by respected Mustang enthusiasts over the years, that Klaus Arning actually designed the lowered position of the UCA to work in harmoney with the IRS being developed fo the Mustang at the same time. And that, as you stated, the first racing use was in the Rally Falcons.
Since this came from people whom I respect, I've pretty much "parroted" this comment over the 30+ years of my involvment with Mustangs, and now am questioning the validity of my information.
Do you have anything that confirms the design was specifically for the Rally cars?
I hate when I post mis-information, and would prefer to be corrected now.
Thank you Sir!

Any documentation I had(Sports car magazine collection starting1962), was thrown away, while I was in Boot Camp1967.
I have run across refferences on the net from time to time, but its just one of those odd ball facts, that stick in my head, while much more important things are lost forever.
Our family bought, a new 63 1/2 Falcon Futura, 260, 4spd, and seeing(in magazines) the same type of car being rallyed in europe, really sparked my interest, Thats how it started for me.
Admittedly not much tech there.
 
Thanks Tubo

Any documentation I had(Sports car magazine collection starting1962), was thrown away, while I was in Boot Camp1967.
I have run across refferences on the net from time to time, but its just one of those odd ball facts, that stick in my head, while much more important things are lost forever.
Our family bought, a new 63 1/2 Falcon Futura, 260, 4spd, and seeing(in magazines) the same type of car being rallyed in europe, really sparked my interest, Thats how it started for me.
Admittedly not much tech there.

Well, that backs up the same information I have read and heard as well, which makes me feel more secure in repeating it.
Thanks man!
 
It's true. We have three new roller spring perch designs. The roller perch we sell now will called a street roller perch. The other three will be an Autocross roller perch, a double roller drag racing perch and a double roller road racing perch. The double roller perches will let the shock pivot on it's own set of bearings, independent of the set the spring rides on. The testing is being done right now. I don't have any photo's to share but they are cool looking.

We have some other new stuff in the works too, like a page for Falcons only.


John


sweet John, i may have to get me a set of those for the 69 cougar. i may have also found me a 68 ranchero project as well, maybe we can compare ranchero notes if i do get it.
 
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