05 GT or Terminator, what to buy?
- Thread starter BigChiefSmokem
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RedDaemon
10 Year Member
i know exactly how you feel. you brought up an interesting topic regarding the interiors tho...regardless of how cheap it may be the interiors of the 05+'s make me want to choose it over a termi you could always do an engine swap...sure that would cost more money but it would be the best of both worlds
sure that would cost more money but it would be the best of both worlds
I think the best of both worlds is a KB on an 05. Then you get termi performance on a sick looking 05.
RedDaemon
10 Year Member
termi, made them for 2 years and just badass street cars. everyone I know has a 05+ and besides the gt badge and dual exhaust it looks and sounds like tthe v-6. I really dont care for te interior of the 05's either. I like the open dash feel of the new edge where as the dash on the 05 comes over your knees for no apparent reason than just looks. doesnt offer anymor space anywhere. I did like the 05 position of the stereo and a/c controls. A lot closer to the shifter and you dont have to lean to adjust either. termi FTW
chrisconsin
Member
Back when I was looking at an 05 GT, the salesman said that only 10% of GTs came with a 5 speed. Is this true, or was it the salesmans first day?
chrisconsin
Member
im sorry i just cant help but laugh because I can see Mr. T saying that with his attitude!... FOOL!
CobraRed_96_GT
Active Member
seriously tho, i do see TOO many new gt's w/ autos, but it's got to be like %55 auto or something. Not thats there anything wrong w/ a built 5-speed auto w/ a kick ass torque converter
im sorry i just cant help but laugh because I can see Mr. T saying that with his attitude!... FOOL!
I pity the fool who believes that!
His 10% estimation is a little on the low side, but he was correct in stating that the majority of the '05's were Auto's. The combination of rental companies buying them up in hords with Auto's and production problems with the 3660 5-speeds contributed to this.
As for which car to get....tough call. If it came right down to it though, I'd personally go with the S197. Not as powerful as the Cobra obviously, but there's no denying that the S197 is a better built/designed over all car. The fact that I'm 6'3" is a big selling factor too. The S197's are sooo much more roomy than the SN95's. I haven't driven an SN95 yet that I haven't found myself looking through the top of the windshild.
CobraRed_96_GT
Active Member
The potential of the 3V is pretty mouth watering, and the rate at which mods are comming out for these cars is crazy. If you buy a termi theres nothing you can do to it that a 100 people b4 you haven't done. W/ a S-197 you can be pretty unique
CobraRed_96_GT
Active Member
look at this steal, proly still on cuz they didn't say GT in the name:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...ngine=&fuel=&style_flag=1&doors=&cardist=1326
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...ngine=&fuel=&style_flag=1&doors=&cardist=1326
1) a 05+ puts out moderately modded what at Terminator can put out stock. a 05+ severely modded (built motor/tranny/etc) will equal that of a "dime a dozen" KB/Whipple cobr, and when all is said and done, probably cost about 10k$ more than a standard KB/Whipple+Support on a 03/04.
2) a 05+ will need to be built to handle anything past 450hp, at 450hp, the 03/04 Motor is barely working, get up to the mid 600's before you are putting it through its paces.
3) a 05+ is bulky and ugly, and looks like a fat woman when parked next to a 03/04 (or any SN95 for that matter).
4) as far as daily driving goes, IRS>SRA (solid rear axle), especially when you start to make power and have to watch out which streets you drive on with Solid Rear, or else under even the slightest of throttle the rear end skips all about on even the smallest bump
5) a set of Full Length SFC's and a good spring/shock combo will make you think you are driving a M3 in the twisties, the car will stay flat in the turns and squat coming out of them. Havent been in a 05+ with similar mods, but i doubt it would do the same, higher center of gravity, weight, etc are all playing against it.
6) why start off with a decent platform when you can start off with a great platform?
7) a new GT will likely cost the same as a used but well maintained 03/04. and guess what, the prices for the 03/04 are not depreciating anytime soon, unlike GT's which are dime a dozen nowadays, the 03/04 will continue to be in the ~25k price range for the next few years, and possibly longer due to demand for the combination of parts that made for a great platform to start on, only topped by that of the $45K MSRP+$30K Markup GT500, who's only difference is a 5.4L and Live Axle/Solid Rear.
2) a 05+ will need to be built to handle anything past 450hp, at 450hp, the 03/04 Motor is barely working, get up to the mid 600's before you are putting it through its paces.
3) a 05+ is bulky and ugly, and looks like a fat woman when parked next to a 03/04 (or any SN95 for that matter).
4) as far as daily driving goes, IRS>SRA (solid rear axle), especially when you start to make power and have to watch out which streets you drive on with Solid Rear, or else under even the slightest of throttle the rear end skips all about on even the smallest bump
5) a set of Full Length SFC's and a good spring/shock combo will make you think you are driving a M3 in the twisties, the car will stay flat in the turns and squat coming out of them. Havent been in a 05+ with similar mods, but i doubt it would do the same, higher center of gravity, weight, etc are all playing against it.
6) why start off with a decent platform when you can start off with a great platform?
7) a new GT will likely cost the same as a used but well maintained 03/04. and guess what, the prices for the 03/04 are not depreciating anytime soon, unlike GT's which are dime a dozen nowadays, the 03/04 will continue to be in the ~25k price range for the next few years, and possibly longer due to demand for the combination of parts that made for a great platform to start on, only topped by that of the $45K MSRP+$30K Markup GT500, who's only difference is a 5.4L and Live Axle/Solid Rear.
02LaserRed2V
New Member
There's already a fully built 2.8H 3V making over 800rwhp. Haven't seen any KB 4Vs touch that yet. MPH just finished a KB 2.6H 3V that was a contestant in 5.0 magazine's KOTS tournament. That car would dust your average dime a dozen stock motor KB/Whipple Cobra, not to mention it's something you don't see often. 3Vs are the **** when built right. However they are VERY costly to build, even more than a 2V since the parts are quite expensive.
And? You're comparing supercharged, to non-supercharged here. The performance world is quickly realizing that the 3V head 4.6L in a lot of cases will equal and even best the 4V head 4.6L in most mod for mod comparisons. I will admit, the DOHC short block in the '03-'04 Cobra is a stout piece, but there's nothing really special about them. Nothing that's couldn't be duplicated with a rod and piston change in most cases if one were so inclined.
Well.....It seems as though the 3V cars are holding up quite well up to 500hp actually. And let's be honest, how many Cobra owners (or Mustang owners for that matter) really take it beyond the limits of bolt on accessories and push them past that level? Sure, we've all got "intentions" of building a 600...700...or 800hp street terror in our heads, but when reality sets in, the venture and cost of tearing into the top end of the engine to make a supercharger swap, or revamping the entire fuel and ignition system to support the needs of those power levels is more than most Cobra owners are able or willing bare. You'd be surprised just how happy bolt-on 500hp performance can make a person when you consider the cost of the alternative.
Bulky....depends on your perspective. Larger for certain, but not to the extent that it's clumsy. It's not nearly as nose heavy as a Cobra and as it is, it handles much better than any GT before it, so that's certainly saying something for the car. Ugly....well, now you're just being narrow minded. As you know, looks are subjective and a well dressed S197 IMO is one of the best looking Mustangs ever made. Although I will agree that the '03-'04 Cobra's certainly take the cake in the "stock" looks dept.
This argument is kind of strange. For certain the IRS will provide a nicer ride over stutter bumps and will increase tire contact for better handling out back, but it takes more than an independent rear end to make a well balanced car. You're still working with a 25-year-old chassis (all be it an improved version of the Fox) as your starting point. I suppose in stock trim an '03-'04 Cobra will stop the clocks a little sooner than an S197, but this more due to the added power levels provided by the Eaton under it's hood, then any handling characteristics of the car itself. And besides, how long do we Mustangers leave anything stock? The S197 is a far superior and better balanced base to work from and has proven as much at the track when put head to head with earlier models since its introduction in '05.
As far as the watch out when "making power" argument goes. Wheel hop is far more frequent and pronounced with the IRS than it is with the live axle. And I'd be more worried about breaking a half shaft off with the Cobra under hard load than having the back end jump out on me in an S197. Have you actually ever been in an S197? Yes, it's larger, over all, but it's also longer and wider than any Mustang before it. With that length and width comes stability. I've been in both and in instances far beyond "stock" driving situations. The "bulkier" S197 feels far more comfortable when pushed than an '03-'04 Cobra does. The car is far better balanced and doesn't flex, distort of push nearly as hard into the corners as the SN95 does.
You "doubt it would do the same"....there you go again with the speculations. The S197's handle like a champ with suspension and chassis mods, just like the Cobra. And as I stated earlier, the Cobra's lower centre of gravity is offset by the weight of its enormously heavy iron block, 4V dressings and an additional 100lbs of supercharger under the hood. There's more to building a great handling car than just having an over all lower curb weight. The added weight in the Cobra's front end just happens to be where the car needs reducing the most and is also where the least amount can be removed. Sure, you could go with tubular front end components and custom K-member, but now you're sacrificing structural integrity and safety in the process. Not to mention the S197 will benefit from the same changes. It's all about "balance" and as big as the S197 is, it has no issues with carrying its extra weight well.
I think you're mixing up your cars here. The S197 is the better platform, by a good margin. It took 25-years to turn the Fox4 chassis you see nestled underneath your Cobra today into a decent one. Don't let an independent rear end and a set of bigger brakes fool you....the chassis itself is still no different than any run of the mill GT before it.
It's true, an new GT and an '03-'04 Cobra can pretty much be had for the same price....which many of you may think looks good on paper. But what you're forgetting is that no matter how well maintained that Cobra is, it's still going to be a 4-5 year older car, with no warranty. I mean....who buys a Mustang because of its depreciation value?!? Go buy a Ferrari or a Porsche if you want to be able to hold onto its value in 20-years. The Mustang (regardless of the model) was built and designed for the working class man. Rough, tough edges, inexpensive to own and maintain and fun to drive at all times.
I'll take that dime a dozen S197 that I already know was an improvement over the previous model and throw a couple thousand dollars worth of extra's at it to really keep it ahead of the pack over one that I feel I need to wipe down with a diaper, or rush home when I see the sky cloud up because I'm afraid a little "daily abuse" is going to hurt it's resale value.
Listen...Cobra's rock for certain. They've got high points the S197 don't. There's no denying that. But assuming the car is better from every angle because you refuse to acknowledge its low and another’s high points along with it is kind of an ignorant attitude, don't you think?
CobraRed_96_GT
Active Member
gearbanger said a lot of things i was thinking but would never say in this sub-forum. GJ Gearbanger 101
holy crap gearbanger. I could not agree more with every word you said. This past month, while I've been waiting for my insurance settlement, I've been going back and forth and back and forth between the terminator and 05 GT. Just last night, I lost several hours of sleep thinking about it, and finally decided on the 05. I wish you would have wrote this before that!!! Now i'm just that much more confident. S-197 here i come!
Guys, before I get any negative feedback for my above post from the die hard SVT crowd, please don't take my views on this as thinking the Cobra a bad choice. For some people, its high points (great power, ultra tough T56, that sexy blower whine, Cobra pedigree, looks great from any angle styling) are more than enough reason to own one. But the appeal that comes with buying a new or even slightly used S197 with its more refined over all package, better balanced platform, younger age, full factory warranty and astonishingly well rounded over all performance give others good reason to cast their doubts.
Were this a comparison between the same model year SN95 GT and the Cobra, it would be no contest, but the S197 design and refinement over the previous model is just so much further ahead in the above mentioned categories, that unless you were truly in love with the look or appeal of one car more than another, it would really be a tough decision as to which the better buy would be based on the high and low points of one model alone.
Were this a comparison between the same model year SN95 GT and the Cobra, it would be no contest, but the S197 design and refinement over the previous model is just so much further ahead in the above mentioned categories, that unless you were truly in love with the look or appeal of one car more than another, it would really be a tough decision as to which the better buy would be based on the high and low points of one model alone.