OK Larry
Gonna be a bit long
but
I feel you need some basic info to turn on the light as they say
I guess I'd say I had a concern
when I saw you quote the value of 32 degrees
When you look at CBAZA spark tables ...........
what you see is THE value and you DO NOT add 10 for the dizzy setting
another way of looking at the tables is ........
Those values are ASSUMED that 10 is the setting of the dizzy
Now you can have some + or - of spark value done with things such as
ect, atc and the like (which happens more in the t4m0 than in the j4j1) but
for the most part ... what you see in the table will be the ballpark value of
what you are gonna see in your WOT dlogs when talking about greatest
load row values.
I will say I've tried various methods of playing around with
all four tables of base, altitude, borderline, and mbt and I
spent a good bit of time doing it
My objective in doing so was to be able to see the values
I called for in my file were the same values I saw in my
WOT dlogs ... AND ... I expected them to match ... EXACTLY :Word:
Using the t4m0 as a foundation in my early efforts at learning all
this stuff ... I could NOT make WOT dlog values match file values
until I took out the bline & mbt tables with 55 in all cells.
Also .........
I can say I've found no difference in using base and altitude together
or just the base only for more ease of tuning ... either method gives
me the matching file & dlog values that I require
Now about your desire to find a value based upon using ... The Juice
I don't quite understand the reasoning of picking a value such as
32 degrees when your pcm won't call for it in the first place
That that 36 degree value you spoke of ...........
Its a rule of thumb for ................................................. NA COMBOS
I'd tell you to listen to Wes, Brett, and other forced folk
But understand ... If you're talking about a stock table........
You'll see at max load about 26 like Wes said
So
To make sure you don't have any issues ........
The 32 to 36 degrees here won't be applicable to your application
At least ... as I see it
About sailorbob ... Yes ... I too feel he knows his stuff
I'd tell you he said to use the bline table due to a specific application
which is great for a forced combo.
Please allow a bit of copy & paste tactics from my personal files
to help here
The info is quite old and goes way back to the early days of the
old EEC Tuner when we all were cutting our teeth on how to tune
but I do feel it can help you Larry as it did me way back then
I MUST give credit to Mr. David Posea
He was so helpful to me and I learned so much from him :Word:
From: spiro <tanastog@o...>
Date: Sun Nov 12, 2000 9:35pm
Subject: Altitude , BAse , and Bordeline Spark tables
Hi ,
Does anyone know when the altitude , base and Borderline spark tables are used by the EEC?
I know the base is probably for sealevel , and altitude is used for
altitudes , depending on barometric pressure and eec extrapolates
form the two to use as a spark table. Does any one know how it calculates
the spark table?
Also when is the bordeline spark table being used and how ? Is it tied
with the other two tables?
Thanks
Spiro
From: David Posea <dposea@m...>
Date: Sun Nov 12, 2000 4:33pm
Subject: Re: Altitude , BAse , and Bordeline Spark tables
All three are used all the time Base and altitude spark are combined
based on barometric pressure, and most eec's use just the base table until
pressure is below 26in/hg. Set them to the same values and you won't need to
worry about that!!
The borderline table gets lots of things added to it, then it is compared
with the value from the base/alt table, and the lower value is used. On
later EECs there is also an MBT spark table that is also used, again with
the lowest value being used.
David
From: <vinson.r.dansby@a...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 8:31am
Subject: Re: Altitude , BAse , and Bordeline Spark tables
David, this statement is just to clarify what your wrote, the eec
(eec V)takes a look at all three tables and then takes the lowest
value to used as timing. So in theory I should or could set one of
the tables (spark_base_table or spark_borderline_det_table)to a high
number, say 55, and set one table to the values that I want the eec
to use. But, which table do I set high and which table do I use to
set my timing? Also, whare does the spark_MBT_table come into play
and how does it affect the timing that I set?
From: <dposea@m...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 11:54am
Subject: Re: Altitude , BAse , and Bordeline Spark tables
See the MBT post for more details on it. It is normally higher than
base spark, so it doesn't get used. You can set either base spark or
borderline spark to 55 (or 63) and tune using only one table. Which
you choose depends on what you want to do. The borderline table value
is modified by A/F ratio, ECT, ACT, and a couple of other things.
Base spark only gets added too by EGR, mostly. So if you want spark
to change with changing conditions, set the base table high. If you
want the same spark values all the time, set borderline high.
David
Lastly ... Optimizing WOT fuel & spark is where one can do damage :Word:
I feel it best
To ensure with a Wideband the fuel is fat like Wes said above
BEFORE
Going for the spark values that produce the most WOT power
Again ... sorry for the long reply ... I hope this stuff helps
Grady