Please provide feedback regarding various problems with newly aquired 94GT

YLWRCR

New Member
Dec 21, 2007
23
0
0
SF Bay Area
Hi everyone,

I have been a long time Corral member and fox-body owner (since 1996), but after picking up my 94GT 2 months ago, I have noticed the 94-95 sub-forum on the Corral is marginal at best. If your posts are not answered within a day or so, the post vanishes and nobody is able to see it unless you refresh the thread yourself. Some of you may know me as Luke87GT on the Corral.

I was directed here by JT (he goes by the name of HISSIN50 on the Corral if anyone is familiar with him). He mentioned that the 94-95 crowd is very knowledgeable and tight knit here. I thought I’d drop in, say hello, and hopefully learn a few things about my newly acquired Mustang. To give you guys some background before I get into the bulk of the post, the following are some details about the car (If it is not listed, then you can assume it is stock).

94GT 5-speed w/ 160K
H&R Race Springs
Koni Reds
MM CC plates
Cobra Brakes
MSD Distributor/Coil
Steeda Shifer
FMS KC Clutch
04 Cobra Wheels

*I did an EEC scan with a jumper wire and I got 111 as the results of both the KOEO and KOER tests, so the car is not spitting any codes at me.

I will go ahead and list some things that I need to take care of below:

1.) The speedometer bounces all over the place. Sometimes it reads 100 when I am doing 50, other times it just goes 360 degrees clockwise pegging the underside of the needle tab when coming to a stop, etc. The odometer works great. I pulled the speedo gear and inspected it. Although it did not have any wear, I went ahead and replaced it with a brand new gear from Ford. That did not fix the problem unfortunately. Next step, I bought a VSS off ebay to see if it will help. It should be here early next week. If that does not help, signs will point to the speedometer itself. If the speedometer is the culprit, is it possible to replace the speedometer without replacing the whole cluster?

2.) The driver side MM CC plate seems to be making a slight clunking over bumps. I jacked up the car and tightened all the bolts (sway bar, spindle, control arm, steering rack, etc). If I bounce the driver side fender up and down using my body weight, I can hear the faint clunk coming from the CC plate. I notice that the previous owner installed 1 big spacer and 2 small spacers below the CC plates, and 1 big spacer above the plate. I plan to get my hands on an impact gun this weekend and reconfigure the spacer arrangement. I will likely put an equal amount of spacers on top and bottom while making sure that the top strut shaft is not running out of threads. If the strut nut is loose, it should cure the clunk. If not, then I may need to replace the bearing on that side. We shall see…

3.) I notice that the throw out bearing is making just a little bit of noise when I am off the clutch. On a fox it is simple. You replace the TO bearing and get a steel retainer. I have heard that the 94-95 uses some two piece retainer? One part aluminum, one part steel? Can anyone explain this to me? What do I need to buy? Pics would be helpful too. D&D shows a simple 1 piece retainer, similar to a fox-body. I will likely avoid doing this until the car needs a new clutch since its very faint, but eventually it will be done.

4.) Pinging… With 87 octane gas I notice the car pings a little between 3-5K RPM in 3rd and 4th gears at WOT. If I fill up with 91 octane (highest octane in CA) it does not ping at all. Seeing as how 91 octane is ~$0.40 more per gallon, and the motor is only 9:1 compression, I would like to be able to run 87 octane, like I do in my 93. I have verified that the timing is at 10 degrees. I have read posts that show that the timing curve for a 94-95 is significantly more aggressive in the mid-range than a fox. Any solutions for this? After doing a search about pinging seen in 94-95 Mustangs, the amount of posts that come up is staggering! Since the car does not throw any codes at me, I am at a loss as to what to tackle first. I will say that the pining was worse when I first bought the car. I replaced the air filter and cleaned off the MAF sensor which helped the pinging considerably, but its still there on 87. Thoughts?

5.) Most important and difficult to diagnose... Once in a while when I try to start the car when hot, the car starts for a split second, then the RPMs fall, and the car dies. It will start back up everytime however, and if I goose the throttle, it will remain on. If the car is in gear and moving, it will also remain on. If I let off the throttle while in neutral, the car dies. Once the car cools, it is 100% back to normal. I have heard that if it were a stator/PIP/Hall Effect sensor, goosing the throttle would not have any effect. Can the IAC be affected by temperature changes? I am not sure what to attack first. The first time this happened, I went ahead and hooked up a vacuum gauge to it and it read steady at 18inches at idle, so it doesn’t appear to be vacuum related. I did notice that this car idles at around 600RPM on the stock tach. Perhaps I can remove the IAC, clean it with electric parts cleaner, and raise the idle a bit? Any thoughts?

Also, how is the idle adjusted on a 94-95 IAC? In a fox, the throttle adjustment is simply done on the throttle blade screw.

That about sums it up. I know the post is long, but I hope to keep it going while I eliminate each of these pesky problems.
Thanks for all your help!

Luke87GT
 
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First, the mandatory :welcome: to :SNSign:

Second, :worthlesb

Now, on to the questions...

1.) The speedometer bounces all over the place. Sometimes it reads 100 when I am doing 50, other times it just goes 360 degrees clockwise pegging the underside of the needle tab when coming to a stop, etc. The odometer works great. I pulled the speedo gear and inspected it. Although it did not have any wear, I went ahead and replaced it with a brand new gear from Ford. That did not fix the problem unfortunately. Next step, I bought a VSS off ebay to see if it will help. It should be here early next week. If that does not help, signs will point to the speedometer itself. If the speedometer is the culprit, is it possible to replace the speedometer without replacing the whole cluster?

As far as I know, you'll have to replace the whole cluster if the speedometer is bad. Had the same issue on a friend's 97 GT, and that was the only solution after replacing the VSS.

2.) The driver side MM CC plate seems to be making a slight clunking over bumps. I jacked up the car and tightened all the bolts (sway bar, spindle, control arm, steering rack, etc). If I bounce the driver side fender up and down using my body weight, I can hear the faint clunk coming from the CC plate. I notice that the previous owner installed 1 big spacer and 2 small spacers below the CC plates, and 1 big spacer above the plate. I plan to get my hands on an impact gun this weekend and reconfigure the spacer arrangement. I will likely put an equal amount of spacers on top and bottom while making sure that the top strut shaft is not running out of threads. If the strut nut is loose, it should cure the clunk. If not, then I may need to replace the bearing on that side. We shall see…

Sounds like you have a good handle on that one. Keep us informed if that doesn't help, so we may be able to point you in the right direction. The strut isn't hitting against the bottom of the hood by chance, is it?

3.) I notice that the throw out bearing is making just a little bit of noise when I am off the clutch. On a fox it is simple. You replace the TO bearing and get a steel retainer. I have heard that the 94-95 uses some two piece retainer? One part aluminum, one part steel? Can anyone explain this to me? What do I need to buy? Pics would be helpful too. D&D shows a simple 1 piece retainer, similar to a fox-body. I will likely avoid doing this until the car needs a new clutch since its very faint, but eventually it will be done.

Same identical setup, but the 94-95 Mustangs used a 5/8" longer input shaft, so they're model specific. IIRC, the bearing retainer is the same part number from the Fox as well.

4.) Pinging… With 87 octane gas I notice the car pings a little between 3-5K RPM in 3rd and 4th gears at WOT. If I fill up with 91 octane (highest octane in CA) it does not ping at all. Seeing as how 91 octane is ~$0.40 more per gallon, and the motor is only 9:1 compression, I would like to be able to run 87 octane, like I do in my 93. I have verified that the timing is at 10 degrees. I have read posts that show that the timing curve for a 94-95 is significantly more aggressive in the mid-range than a fox. Any solutions for this? After doing a search about pinging seen in 94-95 Mustangs, the amount of posts that come up is staggering! Since the car does not throw any codes at me, I am at a loss as to what to tackle first. I will say that the pining was worse when I first bought the car. I replaced the air filter and cleaned off the MAF sensor which helped the pinging considerably, but its still there on 87. Thoughts?

After verifying the base timing at 10° (which you said you did), make sure the balancer outer ring hasn't spun at all. The elastomer that bonds the inner and outer rings has a tendency to dry and cause the balancer to fail. Pioneer or Professional Products are the most economical replacements aside from a stock replacement.

5.) Most important and difficult to diagnose... Once in a while when I try to start the car when hot, the car starts for a split second, then the RPMs fall, and the car dies. It will start back up everytime however, and if I goose the throttle, it will remain on. If the car is in gear and moving, it will also remain on. If I let off the throttle while in neutral, the car dies. Once the car cools, it is 100% back to normal. I have heard that if it were a stator/PIP/Hall Effect sensor, goosing the throttle would not have any effect. Can the IAC be affected by temperature changes? I am not sure what to attack first. The first time this happened, I went ahead and hooked up a vacuum gauge to it and it read steady at 18inches at idle, so it doesn’t appear to be vacuum related. I did notice that this car idles at around 600RPM on the stock tach. Perhaps I can remove the IAC, clean it with electric parts cleaner, and raise the idle a bit? Any thoughts?

Try cycling the key a few times before cranking, to see if it helps any. It's probably bleeding off fuel pressure, so that helps aid the starting process because you'll build more pressure in the rails. I'm assuming you're meaning it's dying while rolling in neutral, so I'd suspect a sticky/bad IAC in that case. You'd likely experience intermittent dying if the PIP was going, and a no-start condition if it was bad. Should be pretty much the same as a Fox, except the TFI is remote mounted on the 94-95, to alleviate the common failure caused by heat soak from the engine.

Also, how is the idle adjusted on a 94-95 IAC? In a fox, the throttle adjustment is simply done on the throttle blade screw.

I hate to link to competitive forums, but this is an excellent writeup worthy of mention:
http://www.stangtuning.com/showthread.php?t=1430

Edit: And JT is HISSIN50 here as well. Mr 25,000+ posts on StangNet. Don't think he's got that many over on Corral ;)
 
First, the mandatory :welcome: to :SNSign:

Second, :worthlesb

Thanks Matt, as you requested, here is a pic of my 94GT (imagine it with OEM 04 Cobra wheels with 275/40/17s at all four corners). And Below that is my baby, the 93 coupe...

99GTwheels1.jpg


94GTside.JPG


TheRK.jpg



...and that was the only solution after replacing the VSS.

Well, I certainly hope it is the VSS because I don't want to have to replace the cluster. What were your friends' speedo symptoms? Was it completely dead? Also, what drives the speedometer? Its electric right? Needle position is a function of voltage?

The strut isn't hitting against the bottom of the hood by chance, is it?

It definitely isn't since I can hear the same sound when bouncing the fender even with the hood up. How strong of an impact do I require to loosen the upper strut nut? The Koni reds do not have anything to grab onto like a slot or a allen, so it looks like I am renting an impact tomorrow.


the bearing retainer is the same part number from the Fox as well.

There is no difference between the two at all? How can they have the same part number if the input shaft is longer? D&D shows two different part numbers:
Click Here

After verifying the base timing at 10° (which you said you did), make sure the balancer outer ring hasn't spun at all. The elastomer that bonds the inner and outer rings has a tendency to dry and cause the balancer to fail. Pioneer or Professional Products are the most economical replacements aside from a stock replacement.

That is certainly a possibility. My friend was actually the one that verified the timing for me. I should repeat it myself just to be sure. Where is the spout connector on these cars?

Regarding the shutting off, do you recommend I first clean the IAC and set the idle? Or does cleaning these generally not help? On a fox, cleaning the IAC works wonders.

Thanks for the link to the idle setting!

And JT is HISSIN50 here as well. Mr 25,000+ posts on StangNet. Don't think he's got that many over on Corral

Wow, I have over 5000 on the corral in 11+ years and I am on almost daily, lol

One other thing I forgot to mention:

6.) I know the previous owner replaced the ignition on this car. The key slot is some cheesy chrome piece from Autozone. It looks like something was installed improperly since anytime the door is open (even if the key is not in the ignition) it beeps. Nothing will make it stop until you shut the door. What could have been wired improperly? A few weeks ago I was replacing the power window motor on the driver side and I had to lodge some wood between the body and the door to depress the door switch to get it to stop, lol.
 
Hey I think I saw that car I think both on cafords.com and craigslist, nice car!

Nothing I can say that hasn't been said about your problems but to check that balancer- I had that problem with my 94, I was looking all over the car for the problem, only to see that the outer ring was barely held on by the serpentine belt. Good luck!

EDIT: Oh snap! You're the same Luke87GT from cafords too, huh?
 
Well, I certainly hope it is the VSS because I don't want to have to replace the cluster. What were your friends' speedo symptoms? Was it completely dead? Also, what drives the speedometer? Its electric right? Needle position is a function of voltage?
I'm not totally sure about how the speedo works, but it's electric. His symptoms were exactly the same as yours.

There is no difference between the two at all? How can they have the same part number if the input shaft is longer? D&D shows two different part numbers:
Click Here
That's good to know, actually. I could've sworn they were the same PN. Summitracing.com showed different part numbers, too. The clutch setup will be the same.

That is certainly a possibility. My friend was actually the one that verified the timing for me. I should repeat it myself just to be sure. Where is the spout connector on these cars?
The SPOUT should be right next to the airbox.

Regarding the shutting off, do you recommend I first clean the IAC and set the idle? Or does cleaning these generally not help? On a fox, cleaning the IAC works wonders.
It works wonders on the SN95, too. I'd clean it to see if it helps at all, and if it does, then reset the base idle. Definitely couldn't hurt anything.

I know the previous owner replaced the ignition on this car. The key slot is some cheesy chrome piece from Autozone. It looks like something was installed improperly since anytime the door is open (even if the key is not in the ignition) it beeps. Nothing will make it stop until you shut the door. What could have been wired improperly? A few weeks ago I was replacing the power window motor on the driver side and I had to lodge some wood between the body and the door to depress the door switch to get it to stop, lol.
Usually, the outer ring is out of alignment. The little pins like to break, and then it'll move independently of the switch itself. I'm not totally sure what they would have done incorrectly, so it might be worth a look inside the column.

That's a good looking SN. I'm really digging the Notch, too. I need to come across some money and get another Fox.
 
Hey I think I saw that car I think both on cafords.com and craigslist, nice car!

Yup, I posted it on cafords.com and you may have seen it on CL because I posted pictures of it to sell the 99GT wheels that I have.

check that balancer

Balancer looks good. I replaced the timing chain last month so I had a chance to inspect it while it was off. It looks ok. I can't see any sign of the two portions separating or walking on me.

EDIT: Oh snap! You're the same Luke87GT from cafords too, huh?

Correct :flag:
But I try not to post there much since the site doesn't offer much value. It is nice because it is local however, especially when trying to buy/sell parts.

Matt, I will go ahead and start with cleaning the IAC and reseting the idle and go from there.

I am not sure what to look for however when I remove the column cover. The next step beyond the door switch, what triggers the door beeping?
 
I agree with what Matt said

Welcome :nice:
and
Yes ... JT is the man :hail2:

I wanted to bring up something :D

I hope the other members have a better memory or will be able to verify
if my thoughts even have any merit.

I'm pretty sure there is ... somewhere ... a write up with pics and all .........
about rebuilding your speedo with replacement gears and the like

Do any of you remember what I'm talking about here :shrug:

*** EDIT ***

Well ... I see you found what I was talking about :)
Hope it helps you!

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=605742

Grady
 
the speedo is an electric motor,its the odometer thats gear driven.i had the same speedo problem.the vss wires were melted togeather.repaired that,but still had to replace the speedo/rpm gauge.i used a cluster from v6 mustang from the junk yard (25$) and put the speedo/rpm gauge in my cluster.it only went to 120mph but the speed was correct while driving.the only thing is the display might be different(oil,airbag....).
 
If the ping does not go away you may want to try a colder t-stat, water wetter, or a better rad. These cars run HOT from the factory and IMHO that is a large part of the ping (and higher timing at mid load from the EGR tables). You could try knocking it down to 8-9* at the dizzy and if your going to the track or want to run more timing/better fuel bump it at that time.

Also the brand of gas may play a part. Consistantly Mobil's gas is actually a higher rating that what is on the sticker and the highest value over that sticker number. Shell and BP/Amico round out the top three. You may want to try Mobil a few tanks and see if it goes away as well.

The only thing that may suck with the colder t-stat is from my exp. when I did it I noticed the elec. fans seemed out of sync with the stat. I tested this with my tweecer and it runs a bit cooler with the fan settings more in line with a 190* stat than with the stock settings. I ran a manual fan switch until I got the tweecer (common mod) but I feel it is a band aid and not a perm. fix.

P.S. DAMN NICE NOTCH
 
the strut clunking may just be that the top nut isnt all the way tight

Interestingly enough, I repositioned the spacers so there is an equal number of spacers above and below the plate, and I tightened the strut nut down tightly. Clunk gone.

I also replaced the steering rack and tie rod ends... Nice to have the rack leak gone. I made sure to include a steering rack limiter since I was rubbing the A-arm at full lock.

Gonna clean the IAC later today and see what happens.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
Update 12-29-07

Just wanted to give you all a quick update.

The new IAC fixed my stalling problem that I described above. When I removed the old IAC and touched the internals with a screwdriver, it basically fell apart from being so brittle.

Now the speedometer is next up on the list, lol.

Happy New Year
And some new pics...

94gt1.jpg


94gt2.jpg


94gt3.jpg
 
Since everything but the speedo has been covered. I will give a bit of aid. I had the same exact issue with mine and I refuse to replace a component unless I know why it failed. Take the cluster out and take the speedo/tach unit out of the houseing. If you measure the resistance between adjacent prongs (you will know what i am talking about when u take it out) 2 should be like 2.63 ohms or something close and the other 2 should be 1.63 or around there. Either way none should be 0. I had 3 prongs good and 1 was 0ohms (Shorted) Hence the needle was unstable or sometimes wouldnt read between certain speeds and would do 360's and stuff. And if that turns out to be your problem. You dont have to replace the whole cluster but you will need another cluster because they dont sell that peice seperate. You can get a V6 cluster or GT cluster from 94-95 and if its a V6 you only need to take the speedo component out and can swap that directly into your current speedo and should be good. To set the needle leave the cover off the cluster but everything else together. Turn the key to ignition and then put the needle on at 0mph. Hope this helps at all