On a budget.. which motor would you build?

[65ShelbyClone]

He's even told me that if he could do it again he would've stroked a 350 and ran a turbo.

THERE'S an option I forgot about! Hell, with a decent JY turbo setup and traction, dubbsix could skip the 12s and 11s altogether. I would stick with mid-11 second power to keep a little reliability, though. 500rwhp starts getting dangerous on a stock block.

 

[dubbsix]

A half dozen guys have chimed in and told you how to run 12's with a 302. It will cost very little to refresh your stock shortblock if neccessary. Simply installing new bearings and re-ringing your factory pistons is pretty cheap.

The cost of building a 460 and installing it in a fox makes it fairly cost ineffective IMO. You haven't even factored in the cost of putting in a different tranny to run a 460 or beefing up your 8.8" rear end.

Take a piece of paper, and start pricing everything you will need to have done to get a 460 into the car. Do the same thing for your current 302. Next, report your findings back to us, and tell us which way you think is easier and cheaper to run mid 12's.

Thanks for the post. I have thought about the cost with getting the 460 between the strut towers. I have access to a freshly rebuild LONG block 460 for 1500.00. I already have a C6 transmission or atleast a rebuildable core. I also have already installed stronger rear suspension pieces and plan on removing the trak-loc and going with a spool with 31 spline axles. I do think you have a good idea about putting it all down on paper.

 

[dubbsix]

Nobody has mentioned that it's a huge pain in the ass to get a Mustang with a 460 to hook up at the track. You'll end up with a weight balance of around 65/35 to the front, and even with a serious drag shock setup you're gonna be hard pressed to transfer that weight to the back. Maybe if you build a 4 link for the rear end and mini-tub it.

Yeah big blocks can make big power. My buddy has a '69 Nova with a 545ci Merlin big block, it makes 793hp all motor on pump gas and runs 9s. It could probably run 8s if it would hook. He's even told me that if he could do it again he would've stroked a 350 and ran a turbo.

Interesting. I have never thought about weight transfer or lack thereof. I guess a dumb question would be.. how much HP is required to run 12's? Maybe im leaning toward a setup that i dont need.. but i guess i just dont know how much power i should be going for to get into the 12's. Can the standard 302 block handle 400HP at the wheels? NA?

 

[dubbsix]

THERE'S an option I forgot about! Hell, with a decent JY turbo setup and traction, dubbsix could skip the 12s and 11s altogether. I would stick with mid-11 second power to keep a little reliability, though. 500rwhp starts getting dangerous on a stock block.

JY turbo setup? Is there a link where i can read up on this ?

 

[85_SS_302_Coupe]

Interesting. I have never thought about weight transfer or lack thereof. I guess a dumb question would be.. how much HP is required to run 12's? Maybe im leaning toward a setup that i dont need.. but i guess i just dont know how much power i should be going for to get into the 12's. Can the standard 302 block handle 400HP at the wheels? NA?

Running a certain ET is more about using the power you've got than making a ton of it. There are factory stock racing classes making around 300hp running deep in the 11s, some of which are easily tame enough to drive on the street (except that most of them run really steep gears, like 4.56s).


Like i said above, a simple GT40P head/good intake/good cam, 5 speed and slicks and drive it like a madman and you can run 12s in an otherwise stock car. Another detail is removing weight, as a lot of those 11 second cars are gutted. Running a good ET is made or lost in the 60 foot time. Build a decent motor and then focus on getting your car to hook.

 

[Drinknbuddy]

if you dont mind me asking... and maybe I missed it... but what is your Budget? and if you do go carbd... you could sell your harness and computer... get some cash for that

 

[65ShelbyClone]

JY turbo setup? Is there a link where i can read up on this ?

Theturboforums.com has everything you need to know. There is even a whole subforum dedicated to it called Junkyard and DIY Turbo Tech.

 

[dubbsix]

budget

if you dont mind me asking... and maybe I missed it... but what is your Budget? and if you do go carbd... you could sell your harness and computer... get some cash for that

I dont mind at all. Budget for the motor is 3K

 

[dubbsix]

Theturboforums.com has everything you need to know. There is even a whole subforum dedicated to it called Junkyard and DIY Turbo Tech.

Sweet. Im already on the board!

 

[86bluecobra]

This car is going to be track only right? Would anyone on here be happy with a strickley track car that only runs in the 12's? I know I wouldn't. A track only car better be right near the 10.00 time or faster depending if you want the chassis hassle to deal with. A 460 would be the way to get there. A strictly track car would have to have an engine I did not have to continually repair. Take it from me E.T. gets addictive. Yes you can make a 302 go fast. But can you afford to make it reliable and fast? Start adding after market blocks into your budget. You will want to go faster. Start with a platform that allows you to do that and doesn't break every other time out to the track. Just my 2 cents. or buck worth.

 

[2000xp8]

On a budget see no reason to not just put a good aluminum head cam intake combo on the car, especially since you say your shortblock is good.
In a lightened track only car, you should be able to get it into the 11's.
If you use TW's for your heads, if your engine goes, you can have them cnc'ed, and then re installed on a 347, then you should be 10's.
Stock blocks are only a problem on high revving engines, and power adder setups.

Budget 351's and 460's don't do anything impressive, the compression usually isn't best suited for a NA combo, and the good heads are definetely not cheap.

As far as a carb goes, EFI setups have come a long way, and good carbs and the proper equipment to run them, are expensive. IMO, leave a carb'ed car, carb'ed and an EFI car, EFI.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

Good carbs are expensive? That's a new one to me.

High-end race carbs are expensive.

 

[HeavyBreather]

Your looking at it all wrong. Roller 302 break at what 500 horse. Stock 460 block and crank will hold 800 horse. its so easy to get 500 horse and 550 ftlbs of torque out of a 9.5 compression small cam dove c heads stealth intake. It will run on pump gas. I have on in my gt it fits good with no problem. You dont have to spin it to the moon either to make power. Go to 460.com there is a build up of a pump gas motor the make 500 horse and 550 ftlbs of torque and 3500 rpm. Get a small block to do that. That is using all of ford parts.

 

[2000xp8]

Good carbs are expensive? That's a new one to me.

High-end race carbs are expensive.

A good carb costs just as much as a good EFI intake, and by the time you buy the lower intake, the fuel delivery setup, you could of just bought a TB, spacer and EFI intake.
I should of been more clear.

 

[351vic]

Wow these guys are all pretty distinct on the aftermarket... I know exactly what you're going through here. I'm 18 and last year, i built a '74 351W for my car; .030 Speed Pro 336CP's (about 10:1 with my heads) stock crank and rods with ARP Bolts, Lunati Voodoo 268H cam 522 & 538 lift, Cast iron D0OE casting 351W heads, mildly ported with stock valves and screw in studs, factory rockers, milled .040 down to 53CC chambers, and a E5TE Cast iron 4bbl intake with an E5TE Motorcraft 600 cfm carb all stock not even rebuilt, and it pushed a 4000 pound Crown Vic to 13.87 with a stock C4 and a 2.73 posi. I never had it dynoed but in all reality, i'm guessing around 350-360 HP give or take a few, but that same combo in your 3200? lb Fox would easily push you into the 12's and with a 150 shot, you'd be mid tens if I'm not mistaken. As far as the budget goes, I had about $1200 in that entire engine. Take that into consideration. BUT i can not stress enough, BALANCE THE ROTATING ASSEMBLY! It's the only way it'll live..

 

[Gene K]

Interesting. I have never thought about weight transfer or lack thereof. I guess a dumb question would be.. how much HP is required to run 12's? Maybe im leaning toward a setup that i dont need.. but i guess i just dont know how much power i should be going for to get into the 12's. Can the standard 302 block handle 400HP at the wheels? NA?

Let me get this straight? You only want to go 12's and you think you need 400 rwhp? In a 3300 lb race weight Fox Body?

My race weight is 3700 lb and I have been in the 12's with approximately 309 rwhp (race conditions) with a pitiful 2.017 60'.

At 3300 lb race weight if you have suspension and tires (1.7x 60') you should be easily capable of a 12.5 with only 280 rwhp at race conditions.

3300 lb NHRA Stock Eliminators go 12.0 @ 108 mph on similar power.
Of course they cut 1.6x 60' and have the entire combo scienced out.

If you build a true 400 rwhp engine be prepared to put in a cage (Sub-11.5).

Note: Above power quotes are for rwhp under race conditions. ie If the DA is 4000' you have to be able to make 280 rwhp under those conditions.