what supercharger? please help
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04YELLOWGT
Active Member
I would say Paxton Novi 2000 or a Vortech SQ or T Trim. I've never been a fan of prochargers and their intercooler dont seem to be as nice or efficent.
Look at the Mongoose Kit from Modular Power House www.modualrpowerhouse.com
Thats what I run and may others run too.
Look at the Mongoose Kit from Modular Power House www.modualrpowerhouse.com
Thats what I run and may others run too.
deftsound
Please ask me how much my supercharger cost
04YELLOWGT
Active Member
I know multiple people that have ran or are running Prochragers and they have had tunning problems with them, two people had leaking seals and they made less power than most guys with blowers I know. I know two guys with 98 Cobras and both dynoed 15rwhp from each other before the blower. They both installed blowers, one an SQ Trim the other a PS1C, on the same boost the Vortech made 45 rwhp more than Procharger and the Vortech wasn't even IC/AC.
Also there is a GT in another town I know with a Procharger and back when I had just the blower with exhaust and gears we raced and I beat him by 3 cars. He had same mods as me but with TB/PLenum too.
As for the Intercoolers, look them up they dont flow near as well and don't keep IATs as low as say a Paxton or other ICs.
Its not tht big of deal to tap the oil pan. I had more problems getting the rubber sleve to fit over the 90mm LMAF than tapping the pan. LOL
If you were aking me how much my blower cost it was $3500-$3600, I dont remember exactly. Also with the MOngoose kit you get EVERYTHING you need, even tune. MPH has some of the best mail order tune around.
Edit: I see you were referring to deftsound's CT. LOL
nwapache
New Member
Procharger is a turd, do some thread searches for good stories. If you are trying to save a buck by going centri go with the Vortech and spend your money well by going with a mongoose kit from MPH, there are way too many little details that you have to take care of if you try to piece it together yourself.
04YELLOWGT
Active Member
Votech (Mongoose Kit) LINK
-Awsomew kit that makes good power
-Can upgrade to T-Trim for cheap down the road
-Easy to tune if time comes you want a custom tune
-Great Customer Support
I am an actually procharger owner. I have 20K on my procharger. Other then a few MAF problems, which had nothing do with with the head unit, Its been great. I make awesome power with 11 psi. EASY to take it off and on. They have worked out alot of the issues and have noticably improved their product from past. Its not harder to tune then any other centri. I look fowared to upgrading to an F1A someday.
i alrerady have a custom tune on my car by PSI motorsports here in texas...
so from what i hear the vortex is a lil better.. PSI is gonna install it for me
and whats the diference from the trims or what not...
cause i want the best
thanks for the help guys!
04YELLOWGT
Active Member
Well if you buy the mongoose kit the tune is pretty much ded on; I ran it for quite awhile with no problems.
There are really 3 Trims that a normal car will use:
S-Trim: Great for a stock bottom car and then some. Blower is some what loud
SQ-Trim Same as the S-Trim but a "quite" version. Supposdly its a little more efficent.
T-Trim: This is more of a race blower but still good for a stock bottom end as long as you keep the boost low. If you dont plan on making 600+rwhp you really dont need it. Boost also comes in a little later so it will be some what slower than a S/SQ Trim with a stock pulley.
I have a P1SC-2 Procharger on my car with the 3 row intercooler. 387 rwhp (3.70 pulley/9.0 lbs.) with no issues. I have had no issues, tuning or otherwise, other than the idle issue after the initial installation. It turned out the idle issue was the Mac T/B, not the tune or the Procharger. Complaints about the tune should be looked at in terms of who is supplying the tune. For instance, when using the Predator, it requires a custom tune on all blower applications. Those tunes are usually accessed by your dyno tuner. To blame ATI for a poor tune or tuning issues is ludicrous. Oil leaks can only come from 2 areas and usually occur when someone tries to reclock the head unit after the unit has been run. It's because the o-rings stick from the heat of being run previously and then are damaged when reclocking the head. The other oil leak issue is at the drain plug and the o-ring must be changed after each oil change because the o-ring crystalizes from the heat. The proper o-ring size is critical here as well. If you know what your doing and you understand how ATI engineers their superchargers, there aren't any issues. I have heard of one internal misters failing but that is rare. The problem is most people don't know what they are doing. I installed mine myself. I have had the head unit apart and I have reclocked the head unit on Prochargers. Let's face it, testimonials are only as good as the people using them. And most of those people don't install their own units, nor do they get involved with the operational functions of the unit. How many of these people have actually dissassembled a head unit? Or understand in theory its design to function operation? ATI has other blowers for racing capabilities besides the P1 and D1 units. And for the record, ATI has the fastest supercharger ET in the world and is the world record holder. Because you raced and beat someone with a Procharger proves nothing. There are over 4 different pulley sizes available for different boost applications and the amount of power adding choices of associated bolt-ons is damn near limitless. ATI measures its ITs before the intercooler, so stating that as your reason for an inefficient intercooler setup would be inaccurate. When Dynoing with an intercooler, all you have is the portable fans and that is a long ways from an actual simulation of intercooler efficiency. In fact, the fans are only good for 2 or 3 pulls before the temps rise on any intercooler. The fans cannot push enough air like driving at 65 mph would. I think that the KB is probably the best all around but there is nothing wrong with Vortech and others. They all serve their purposes. But to bash ATI from rumors from others who don't know what they're doing is an unfair characterization of a fine piece of equipment. Just my .02
04YELLOWGT
Active Member
How do you know the people don't know what they are doing. The guys I know have been racing and building motors for years, any where from all out drag cars to monster street cars. With the prochargers leaking ther leaked right away as soon as the oil was put in so it has nothing to do with o-rings or improper use. I have two frinds that work at performance shops and one is a Procharger Distributor. They have personally have had leaking Prochargers and they have installed a few also. They had 2 Prochargers leak in a row for one customer. I also never blamed Procharger for poor tunes I said they are hard to tune. I've heard and talked to people like Pauls HP, Breenspeed, and a few others that said they had problems with tuning cars with Prochargers and drivability problems. Wether Procharger has the fastest ET in world has nothing to do with a normal street car too. Im comparing equall blowers PS1C vs S/Sq Trim and T-Trim vs DS1C
As for me racing the other GT it I talked to and know the guy he was making 8psi just like me.
Your intercooler excuse also makes no sense you act like Procharger ICs are the only ones that don't perform well on the dyno. ANY IC doesn't perform to its full potential on a dyno. I never claimed to get any of my iformation from ATI so wether ATI rates its IATs before the IC or not makes no difference to my claims. I've seen data logs from performance shops I've been to and from the internet. The best one I can say was one from EPP where a guy swapped out his Procharger IC to a Paxton or some other IC and the IATs dropped drastically.
Please dont say Im giving out inaccurate infromation when you have no idea where I've gotten my information at and just assuming.
Obviously you have had good experience with yours and Im sure many others have too or Procharger wouldn't be in business. Im not saying that Prochargers are a bad blower but from what I've seen they have had some issues.
I know for a fact that there are only 2 leak zones on the P1 and D1 blowers. I also know why they leak. I was just trying to clairify the oil leak problem falacy. I am also aware the ATI has had some quality control issues from time to time with their assemblers. With that said, I haven't heard any new units leaking, but if you have, then so be it.
What you actually stated was that there have been tuning problems with the Procharger. I only stated that the tuning problems have nothing to do with the Procharger.
My intercooler statements are not an excuse, but are a fact. And I stated intercoolers in general when using dyno result pulls. I was not specific to a particular intercooler. What you stated was that ATI's intercoolers were not as efficient as the others and all I was pointing out was that a dyno cannot measure the true efficiency of an intercooler. So, then my question is, where did you get your intercooler efficiency numbers from? My other point was those numbers will vary depending on where your ITs are measured from and I used as an example the ATI's are measured before the intercooler. So maybe you could direct me to that internet information?
It is also a fact that most blower owners know very little about them and most pay someone to install them. The result is a lot of information that is regurgitated about superchargers is jaded info at best. You and I probably know a little more than the average shmo, but ATI does build a quality unit. And you know that I could dig up negative info on all the other blowers on the market. When I did my research before purchasing my P1SC, I found all kinds of negative crap about all the blowers on the market. All I could do was sift thru all of this crap and try and make a educated decision. I bought a used unit and ended up taking it all apart so I could learn about it...and then had ATI rebuild it after I was thru examining it. I'm not an expert by any means, but I now know enough to be dangerous...lol.
What you actually stated was that there have been tuning problems with the Procharger. I only stated that the tuning problems have nothing to do with the Procharger.
My intercooler statements are not an excuse, but are a fact. And I stated intercoolers in general when using dyno result pulls. I was not specific to a particular intercooler. What you stated was that ATI's intercoolers were not as efficient as the others and all I was pointing out was that a dyno cannot measure the true efficiency of an intercooler. So, then my question is, where did you get your intercooler efficiency numbers from? My other point was those numbers will vary depending on where your ITs are measured from and I used as an example the ATI's are measured before the intercooler. So maybe you could direct me to that internet information?
It is also a fact that most blower owners know very little about them and most pay someone to install them. The result is a lot of information that is regurgitated about superchargers is jaded info at best. You and I probably know a little more than the average shmo, but ATI does build a quality unit. And you know that I could dig up negative info on all the other blowers on the market. When I did my research before purchasing my P1SC, I found all kinds of negative crap about all the blowers on the market. All I could do was sift thru all of this crap and try and make a educated decision. I bought a used unit and ended up taking it all apart so I could learn about it...and then had ATI rebuild it after I was thru examining it. I'm not an expert by any means, but I now know enough to be dangerous...lol.
04YELLOWGT
Active Member
There was a link on Brenspeeds website but I cant find it now, it was in there destruction page and it showed 2 BRAND NEW units and both leaked. I was there the day they put the first one on and was up there shortly after and they said the second blower ATI sent them leaked also.
As for tuning its not the Supercharger it self but the MAF that the Procharger uses.
You can look at how efficent the IC is by looking at the IATs, the lower they are the more efficent the IC is at cooling. I use to have a file saved on my computer comparing different ICs on simalr setups, I'll try to find it. I've also seen the comparsion at EPP and I think a guy on Modualr Fords had a thread about them. I know what your saying about where the IATs are measeured at and of course course going before the IC will have higher IATs but I don't know what good that would be.
Yes most people really dont research the blowers themselves but more of what makes the most power and horror stories. Of course every blower has problems, the Vorteh Ive read of people breaking the oil feed nozle (or whatever you want to call it) you tap into the oil pan. I by no means calim to be an expert but with as many friends and people in general I know, I've learned alot. Im sure like you said we know more than the average enthusiest about blowers and of course we both will prefer what we own or at least try to defend our blower.
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