Lifters

[s2hooey]

All,
I am currently looking at a 1969 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351w that the owner has told me has a bad lifter. I used to have a 1965 coupe several years ago but never had to deal with this issue. I was told this is an easy job and I know the parts are relatively inexpensive (about 5.00 a piece from how I understand it). I researched this a bit and found it looks more complicated than I thought and that there is a lot of debate over the issues of soaking them in oil first and setting them i.e. 1/2 turn, 1/4 turn, etc. I am not sure if I have the mechanical finesse to fix this, and was wondering what a fair price to have this done would be if I cant handle the job. I dont want to be raked over the coals for parts that cost under $100. Please let me know cause I may let this one go if it is an expensive problem. Thanks

-Dan

 

[VTStang66]

It's not a hard job. I don't know 351W's but on a 302 you would just pull the intake and remove one rocker arm and pushrod, and the lifter pulls right out. Finding the bad lifter may be a little harder than actually replacing it. I don't know if 351s have adjustable rocker arms, but I'm guessing they don't, in which case you just tighten it down to whatever the spec is. Soak in oil or not, doesn't really matter. Might as well.

If this is a job you aren't comfortable with, I wouldn't try to own one of these cars. Speaking from experience, these older cars require some degree of mechanical intuition and common sense to work on. They're easier to work on than the new cars, but you can't just plug a computer into it and replace a part. That being said, there are a bunch of idiots working at shops who think they can work on your car, but all they'll do is not be able to fix the problem or even make it worse and charge you way too much money. Been there, done that. I don't let anybody touch my car unless I absolutely have to, and then I worry a lot and stand over them if possible.

 

[s2hooey]

The seller said it was the passenger side the one furthest back. I am not intending to replace just one, figure I might as well do all of them seeing how the parts are cheap enough. The 1965 I had never had an issue with this and the original cam and lifters worked out just fine. The job itself doesnt have me worried it is the amount of second guessing and conflicting info about everytinh surrounding this topic. Just want to make sure it is done right. Worst case I may have the seller fix it before we trade as he said it was an easy job also and my Nova is in better shape than the Mustang so he owes me one

 

[coolblue65]

It is a pretty easy job on 289/302s, if I was to go replace mine right now I would say I could have the car apart and back together and adjusted in 2 hours or less- so that should give you an idea of labor time.

This is one of those jobs that seems daunting because you are starting to get to the internals, but as you said the only part that takes a small amount of finesse is the the rocker adjustment (if yours are even adjustable) and that being said I know people who will go 1/4 turn all the way to 3/4 a turn so you actually have a fair bit of room to play. There is nothing wrong with soaking them in oil- it definately won't hurt - I haven't usually in the past except for my last build up of the 347.

 

[67rcks]

I removed lifters a while ago for the first time and found exactly same advices on mustang forums and printed manuals. However: if you have an old engine the lifter won't go out easily. You have to grab it with a screwdriver (watch for tiny springs not to come out!) and move it vertically (up and down). 20-30 times should release it so you will be able to use fingers instead of screwdriver. Don't pull it by force. Also don't soak it in oil - it has enough lubrication. If oiled you won't be able to grip it, or with difficulties. Patience is mandatory. But first make sure what you want. If lifters are bad very likely your cam lobes are worn. Worn lobes make higher pressure on cam seats and bearings, which are probably gone too. I am not sure if any machine shop would grind cam seats with the bottom in. If not, you have to completely disassemble the engine and if nothing was done to it for the last 40 years you are likely to find additional pricy stuff (cracked pistons, uneven cylinder walls, main+rod bearings and seats). So my advise, doesn't make much sense to touch lifters it if it runs. Or do complete overhaul.

 

[jlangholzj]

1)if you have an old engine the lifter won't go out easily.

2) You have to grab it with a screwdriver (watch for tiny springs not to come out!) and move it vertically

3)don't soak it in oil - it has enough lubrication. If oiled you won't be able to grip it, or with difficulties.

4)If lifters are bad very likely your cam lobes are worn. Worn lobes make higher pressure on cam seats and bearings, which are probably gone too. I am not sure if any machine shop would grind cam seats with the bottom in. If not, you have to completely disassemble the engine and if nothing was done to it for the last 40 years you are likely to find additional pricy stuff (cracked pistons, uneven cylinder walls, main+rod bearings and seats). So my advise, doesn't make much sense to touch lifters it if it runs. Or do complete overhaul.

hold on now here.....

1) yes and no, the only real problem you should have taking them out is with suction. because of the oil in the lifters, they will resist slightly, but you shouldn't need a pliars to get it out. if so, then you've got more than just a lifter problem. if youjust wiggle it back and forth with your fingers, it should pull right out with a magnet.

2) whats going on here??? if thats happening, then you've got the lifter appart, no need for that.

3)to-ma-to to-mah-to i geuss whe i put mine in, i just lubed them with my fingers and slid them back in. if your just replacing one, i don't know if you should put any assembly lube on the bottom.

ps. i think he was talking about when you put them back in.

4) not necisarily, all we know at this point is that a lifter is bad. we have no idea if its the bottom of the lifter, or if the lifter is collapsed. have you heard the engine run??? if it ticks then it's probally just a collaped lifter, no problem. and sertainly no need for an overhaul. if it's anything else, they guy should've replaced it because he would have needed to pull it out to find out


i've only done this once or twice, but you should be able to handle it. you take about 12 bolts off and lift off the carb and intake as an assembly and its all right there. like everyone else has said, then you take off a rocker and pull out the rod and you will have full access to the lifter.


have fun!!! i loved it when i did it.

 

[180 Out]

Nobody's mentioned the first line of defense: Marvel Mystery Oil.

As for 67rcks, let's just say I respectfully disagree. One bad lifter does not mean a worn cam, cracked pistons, etc. (I don't even know what a "cam seat" is.) You can replace one lifter or all of them. I would replace only the bad one.

I would also check if it isn't a bent pushrod that's to blame.

Just keep in mind you need to break it in same as if it were a complete cam swap. Use moly lube on the lifter and the cam lobe, a bottle of Comp break in lube, and run for 20 minutes without dropping below 3000 rpm.

 

[woodsnake]

In for a penny, in for a pound. If it has that much noise, why not go ahead and do some other long term investment maintenance? Go ahead and pull the timing cover off, and replace the more than likely ready to fail timing gear set, and install a new .456/.456 ish cam and lifters. Better performance, and less fear of catastrophic failure.

 

[jlangholzj]

Just keep in mind you need to break it in same as if it were a complete cam swap. Use moly lube on the lifter and the cam lobe, a bottle of Comp break in lube, and run for 20 minutes without dropping below 3000 rpm.

AH HAA!!! lol, there's the answer iwas looking for

In for a penny, in for a pound. If it has that much noise, why not go ahead and do some other long term investment maintenance? Go ahead and pull the timing cover off, and replace the more than likely ready to fail timing gear set, and install a new .456/.456 ish cam and lifters. Better performance, and less fear of catastrophic failure.

but what i'f he's ona tight budget??? sure that would be great, but i think only replacing the bad one will work, if you want to do this later, seeing you'll have to replace all the lifters then again anyway.




your original question: (one thing i forgot) just follow the instructions, they're tere for a reason, i know we don't like to folow them but you'll be ok.

 

[BarnStang]

"have you heard the engine run???"
THat's the REAL question. THe seller could possibly tell you anything. Have you driven the car? What did YOU hear? Lets determine if it really is a lifter first. If you're confident that it really is one bad lifter, then you got all the info you need so far. Let us know what the noise is (I'm assuming it has a noise that is leading the diagnosis of a bad lifter)