I have a 89 gt with an automatic and i want to make it different than all the rest around town. I own a 351 cleveland 2barrel and have 4 barrel heads to put on it. I want to put this motor in the fox. What will I need to make this possible? I know a few companys make headers and oil pans already for this swap so i know its been done before. Any help is appreciated.
351C in a 89 fox body
- Thread starter dmeads311
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A swap I'm considering as well, Here are a few thoughts on it in no specific order:
An aod is going to have trouble dealing with a 351C. A c-4 beefed up would be a safer bet or a tko600.
Special headers/oilpan are indeed needed, I bought the moroso pan for mine, was about 300 bucks. Have not located a set of headers I like yet.
full length subframe connectors and torque box re-enforcing a minimum. Shock tower beef up would be good too.
Jury is still out on k-members, I'm not a fan of giant hood scoops so if clearance is that much of an issue I'll get a lowering k member.
Brake upgrades would be good, 351C is heavier than a 302 and a lot more then a 2.3. Jury is still out on a good spring rate.
Better radiator for sure. There are a couple companies making reverse rotation 351C water pumps so I will be going serpentine. Have not decided on if power steering is going to stay yet.
Rear end will need help, better axles, c clip eliminators, gears, probably a brake upgrade to disc.
4V heads have 2 piece valves stock that love to come apart if you rev it at all. As 351C love to rev, and make their best power reving, this seems a no brainer to correct. Good one piece stainless steel valves, bronze guides, whatever seat work is needed and a good valve job minimum. Have them machined for stud mount rockers as well.
Make sure your engine has the brass restrictor plate installed under the thermostat or it will run hot.
Your 89 will need its fuel tanked sumped for a carb application unless it is a trunk car and you plan on going fuel cell.
Plan on a large tire bill!!
I don't remember the stock number but I think a 351C was over 300 to the wheels ootb. Minimal mods will shoot you well past 400, mainly good lifters/cam/spring combo and enough exhaust to let it breathe. I have a 750 holley on mine but I won't know how that is until I fire it off.
Stroker kits for them are easily available, a 4V 408 set up well will give more than 500 of both hp and torque NA, in a 3000 lb car, thats a scary ride, hope the roads are dry and sand free!
my random thoughts
Matt
An aod is going to have trouble dealing with a 351C. A c-4 beefed up would be a safer bet or a tko600.
Special headers/oilpan are indeed needed, I bought the moroso pan for mine, was about 300 bucks. Have not located a set of headers I like yet.
full length subframe connectors and torque box re-enforcing a minimum. Shock tower beef up would be good too.
Jury is still out on k-members, I'm not a fan of giant hood scoops so if clearance is that much of an issue I'll get a lowering k member.
Brake upgrades would be good, 351C is heavier than a 302 and a lot more then a 2.3. Jury is still out on a good spring rate.
Better radiator for sure. There are a couple companies making reverse rotation 351C water pumps so I will be going serpentine. Have not decided on if power steering is going to stay yet.
Rear end will need help, better axles, c clip eliminators, gears, probably a brake upgrade to disc.
4V heads have 2 piece valves stock that love to come apart if you rev it at all. As 351C love to rev, and make their best power reving, this seems a no brainer to correct. Good one piece stainless steel valves, bronze guides, whatever seat work is needed and a good valve job minimum. Have them machined for stud mount rockers as well.
Make sure your engine has the brass restrictor plate installed under the thermostat or it will run hot.
Your 89 will need its fuel tanked sumped for a carb application unless it is a trunk car and you plan on going fuel cell.
Plan on a large tire bill!!
I don't remember the stock number but I think a 351C was over 300 to the wheels ootb. Minimal mods will shoot you well past 400, mainly good lifters/cam/spring combo and enough exhaust to let it breathe. I have a 750 holley on mine but I won't know how that is until I fire it off.
Stroker kits for them are easily available, a 4V 408 set up well will give more than 500 of both hp and torque NA, in a 3000 lb car, thats a scary ride, hope the roads are dry and sand free!
my random thoughts
Matt
I am almost finished with my 1990 Cleveland swap. It has taken me long time but mostly because of work/money/life not because trouble on the car...
engine:
I am running a 351C .030 over with stock crank, rods, and cleveland 2V heads with mods (port work, valves, seats, studs,etc...) Im running a custom ground solid flat tappet cam approx. .600 lift and .248 @.050 duration. A weiand excellerator intake and a ProSytems 4150 based carb. A nitrous Express N20 kit. I sumped my stock tank and running an aeromotive A1000 for the fuel side and a Aeromotive street pump for my nitrous system.
trans:
Performance automatic super comp C4 and a custom convertor (around 4000)
Suspension:
wilde rides torque box reinforcements, wolfe raccecraft thru the floor subframes and 8 point mild steel cage with swingouts. wolfe racecraft antirollbar. QA1 coil over in rear..not sure on spring rate or height. may need to change.
ground pounder k member and control arms. flaming river rack and pinion. strange adjustable struts with coil over kit and 175lb springs int he front with travel limiters.
the ground pounder kit is similar to D&D or QA1 for reference...
let me know if you have any questions. I did lighten my car sense its gonna be R&D drag car. jsut to play with diff things. I have a american autowire universal wiring kit in it so no factory wiring. dash fro an 89 with tilt column. power windows and locks work but I have no "dash guts" being no heater or ductwork, no wipers manual brakes etc....
the Cleveland swap is quite easy. You use same motor mounts. need a fox body pan which you can et from Moroso or Canton. Headers..I personally would build a custom set if I did it again. Headman headers seem to fit so far but they are just as expensive and dont think they are the best solution I woudl do a few thing sdifferent if I did it again..
engine:
I am running a 351C .030 over with stock crank, rods, and cleveland 2V heads with mods (port work, valves, seats, studs,etc...) Im running a custom ground solid flat tappet cam approx. .600 lift and .248 @.050 duration. A weiand excellerator intake and a ProSytems 4150 based carb. A nitrous Express N20 kit. I sumped my stock tank and running an aeromotive A1000 for the fuel side and a Aeromotive street pump for my nitrous system.
trans:
Performance automatic super comp C4 and a custom convertor (around 4000)
Suspension:
wilde rides torque box reinforcements, wolfe raccecraft thru the floor subframes and 8 point mild steel cage with swingouts. wolfe racecraft antirollbar. QA1 coil over in rear..not sure on spring rate or height. may need to change.
ground pounder k member and control arms. flaming river rack and pinion. strange adjustable struts with coil over kit and 175lb springs int he front with travel limiters.
the ground pounder kit is similar to D&D or QA1 for reference...
let me know if you have any questions. I did lighten my car sense its gonna be R&D drag car. jsut to play with diff things. I have a american autowire universal wiring kit in it so no factory wiring. dash fro an 89 with tilt column. power windows and locks work but I have no "dash guts" being no heater or ductwork, no wipers manual brakes etc....
the Cleveland swap is quite easy. You use same motor mounts. need a fox body pan which you can et from Moroso or Canton. Headers..I personally would build a custom set if I did it again. Headman headers seem to fit so far but they are just as expensive and dont think they are the best solution I woudl do a few thing sdifferent if I did it again..
ponyboy86
New Member
I just picked up a 351c today not knowing it was. I was told it was a windsor. I have caught a lot of flack on my local board, one for not knowing, and two about it not being worth keeping. I got it for next to nothing, complete longblock, just disassembled, and have been reading lots on it the last couple of hours, and am actually glad i got it right now. I am glad to hear the motor mounts are the same, but everyone else keeps telling me it will be a hard to put into my 82. For the guy with it in your 90, are the motor mounts in the stock place? Any modifying for the mounts you had to do? I knew the headers would be a pain. TIA
i have a 393 cleveland with all the good stuff in it that made damn near pro-stock numbers at 14.5:1 compression. I have been wanting to pull the windsor out of my notch for a few years now and do this swap. It is apart, well the short block is still together but i took the heads off to see what I was getting into before i bought it. I really want to put it in my car and this thread has been quite helpful. I am actually debating selling the combo still and just reworking my windsor (a high ten second motor N/A right now) what do you guys think?
elderstang
New Member
Irish is right on with everything except the fuel delivery. If u are going carburated, just put a "t" fitting in front of a fuel pressure regulator(Holley "20 bucks"). On one side, run the fuel line to the carb, and the other is the return line to the tank. This way u can use the electric fuel pump and the carb setup. Be sure to set the fuel pressure @ 7-9 pounds. Good luck, Cleveland power rocks!!! Oh By the way.... ur gonna need a big carb!
Jredline1984
Member
dmeads311: I have had issues using the factory in-tank pump due to pressure creep in the lines blowing out the seals in my carb. I would recommend either the in-tank pickup from a 85 and older carb'd fox setup or if you are trying to save a little cash, remove the electric pump and clamp on a piece of 3/8" fuel line, just make sure it is long enough to reach the rear of the tank.
ponyboy86: The motor mounts from a 302 fox will work just fine. if you are going aftermarket, a set of prothane mounts seem to give a little more clearance between the oil pan and power steering rack.
ponyboy86: The motor mounts from a 302 fox will work just fine. if you are going aftermarket, a set of prothane mounts seem to give a little more clearance between the oil pan and power steering rack.
You will be spending some money. Get ready. My swap extended over several years where I went back and modified or changed things.
Determine transmission FIRST! Everything attached to the rotating assy needs to be balanced so make your mind up or you will have to tear it all back apart to change it later.
Do not fool yourself into thinking your stock AOD will handle a 351 Cleveland in any performace form. It will scatter. Either right off the bat or in a few weeks. If you want to stay with the AOD then go with a TCI streetfighter or similar. You have a choice of lockup or nonlockup. Stock is a lockup and nonlockup is much stronger but slips more on OD. The biggest issue and advantage at the same time is overdrive. You will be able to cruise in overdrive but not be able to use overdrive while racing and only have first, second, and third. I hate this because my motor will easily pull another gear and the car would go much faster. You will need a SFI flexplate and decent stall for your setup. Get the flexplate balanced with your engine assy. You will need a Lokar Hi-Tech Kickdown Kit KD-2AODU72 for the AOD. Expect to spend about $2800. You will also need the selector shaft out of your old AOD to install in your TCI AOD and a transmission oil cooler is required by TCI.
OR.....
If you want to go with a manual look at the Magnum 6 speeds. A stock T-5 wont last long and neither will the stronger ones.
You will need a Magnum install kit.
-Lokar universal cut-to-fit throttle cable.
-Swap oil pan
-Swap headers
-Custom exhaust to mufflers.
-Stock or OEM motor mounts will work but must have 5/8 or more spacers installed between the mount bracket and block mounts.
-Some form of timing control. (Mech. advance dist. with MSD 6-AL, MSD timing control, Fitech EFI....)
-Fuel pump to replace stock in tank pump. (255 Lph for FiTech EFI or 89-91 F-150 fuel tank lift pump for carb) No, you do not have to get a fuel cell or all that wild crazy crap.
-Distributor (magnetic pickup for EFI or MSD 6-AL) Why waist time with points?
**Optional fuel pressure regulator (Carburetor requires one but FiTech EFI does not)
-Braided or EFI fuel lines and adaptors. (Stock fuel line disconnect adaptors to regulator to carb or straight to FiTech efi)
-Mechanical fuel pump block off plate.
-Cowl hood. (Air cleaner will not clear stock hood. Even low profile. Period)
-If you don't want to cut your stock body harness connectors off the EFI harness, you can get a donor harness or some of the connectors may be available from a parts store.
-Yank the computer and entire EFI harness from the car. The body harness, alternator harness, and routed battery and ground cables stay. If you know your 5.0 engine compartment like I do then it will all fit on the 351 just like it had on the 5.0. All grounds not attached to the EFI harness stay.
-Electric fan setup. Most the stock fan will not fit the fan shroud or even under the hood. You will need a set of relays to power the fans and 1-2 thermostats unless you go with FiTech EFI.
-Determine if you want a V-belt or serpentine accy drive system. If V belt you will have old style accy brackets and setup. I don't care for it but people use it. If serpentine then you can use 351 Windsor pulleys with the water pump pulley holes drilled to fit the Cleveland pump pattern. You will have to custom all the rest except the alternator bracket which is available out there. I can show you how to retain the power steering but not the A/c. You will need an original 351 Cleveland power steering pump bracket and your two hole 5.0 aluminum bracket that the pump mounts to. You will also have to have a reverse rotation water pump. I have found 1 in existance. If you locate others please let me know.
351 Cleveland cooling system is much more anal than the 302 HO. To fill and circulate the system initially you must jack the front of the car up pretty high and massage the lower radiator hose to promote air bubble removal. Even while running until it circulates.
Better and wider rubber on the rear. You will burn the stock tires clean off.
Start thinking of driveline strength upgrades.
Determine transmission FIRST! Everything attached to the rotating assy needs to be balanced so make your mind up or you will have to tear it all back apart to change it later.
Do not fool yourself into thinking your stock AOD will handle a 351 Cleveland in any performace form. It will scatter. Either right off the bat or in a few weeks. If you want to stay with the AOD then go with a TCI streetfighter or similar. You have a choice of lockup or nonlockup. Stock is a lockup and nonlockup is much stronger but slips more on OD. The biggest issue and advantage at the same time is overdrive. You will be able to cruise in overdrive but not be able to use overdrive while racing and only have first, second, and third. I hate this because my motor will easily pull another gear and the car would go much faster. You will need a SFI flexplate and decent stall for your setup. Get the flexplate balanced with your engine assy. You will need a Lokar Hi-Tech Kickdown Kit KD-2AODU72 for the AOD. Expect to spend about $2800. You will also need the selector shaft out of your old AOD to install in your TCI AOD and a transmission oil cooler is required by TCI.
OR.....
If you want to go with a manual look at the Magnum 6 speeds. A stock T-5 wont last long and neither will the stronger ones.
You will need a Magnum install kit.
-Lokar universal cut-to-fit throttle cable.
-Swap oil pan
-Swap headers
-Custom exhaust to mufflers.
-Stock or OEM motor mounts will work but must have 5/8 or more spacers installed between the mount bracket and block mounts.
-Some form of timing control. (Mech. advance dist. with MSD 6-AL, MSD timing control, Fitech EFI....)
-Fuel pump to replace stock in tank pump. (255 Lph for FiTech EFI or 89-91 F-150 fuel tank lift pump for carb) No, you do not have to get a fuel cell or all that wild crazy crap.
-Distributor (magnetic pickup for EFI or MSD 6-AL) Why waist time with points?
**Optional fuel pressure regulator (Carburetor requires one but FiTech EFI does not)
-Braided or EFI fuel lines and adaptors. (Stock fuel line disconnect adaptors to regulator to carb or straight to FiTech efi)
-Mechanical fuel pump block off plate.
-Cowl hood. (Air cleaner will not clear stock hood. Even low profile. Period)
-If you don't want to cut your stock body harness connectors off the EFI harness, you can get a donor harness or some of the connectors may be available from a parts store.
-Yank the computer and entire EFI harness from the car. The body harness, alternator harness, and routed battery and ground cables stay. If you know your 5.0 engine compartment like I do then it will all fit on the 351 just like it had on the 5.0. All grounds not attached to the EFI harness stay.
-Electric fan setup. Most the stock fan will not fit the fan shroud or even under the hood. You will need a set of relays to power the fans and 1-2 thermostats unless you go with FiTech EFI.
-Determine if you want a V-belt or serpentine accy drive system. If V belt you will have old style accy brackets and setup. I don't care for it but people use it. If serpentine then you can use 351 Windsor pulleys with the water pump pulley holes drilled to fit the Cleveland pump pattern. You will have to custom all the rest except the alternator bracket which is available out there. I can show you how to retain the power steering but not the A/c. You will need an original 351 Cleveland power steering pump bracket and your two hole 5.0 aluminum bracket that the pump mounts to. You will also have to have a reverse rotation water pump. I have found 1 in existance. If you locate others please let me know.
351 Cleveland cooling system is much more anal than the 302 HO. To fill and circulate the system initially you must jack the front of the car up pretty high and massage the lower radiator hose to promote air bubble removal. Even while running until it circulates.
Better and wider rubber on the rear. You will burn the stock tires clean off.
Start thinking of driveline strength upgrades.
Last edited:
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