3-point seat belt for convertible

[fun_1965_pony]

Hello, I have been searching, but cannot find information on if it is possible to install 3-point seat belts into my 1965 mustang convertible. Does anyone have comments on doing this? I was just hoping to make the car a bit safer (front and back seat). Thank you. ACS

 

[S-Car-Go]

Everything I've seen connects the shoulder belt below the height of your shoulder. In an accident this could compress your spine. I was thinking about attaching to a roll bar, but roll bars have their own issues..

Subscribing because I too would like to see if there is a good alternative out there.

 

[suki243]

I've seen this done a bit in coupes but not sure about verts. but you can weld it behind the quarter panel and then bring it through the quarter panel. The other option is a roll bar.
(It's not much lower than the shoulder.)
Or you can get those seats that have the belt built into it.

 

[rc4mike]

I have a 65 convert. Belt retract unit is welded behind the panel next to the seat (hidden from view this way) . the belt then runs up through the panel to a point near top of door jamb. I am 6-3 and even though the belt anchors below level of my shoulder, it is still comfortable.

mike

 

[jikelly]

I also asked this question in multiple places. I've got a 73 convertible, anyway, the consensus was that I should just get a roll cage. I have some reservations about adding a role cage to the car since it would be a major alteration. However, a roll cage would not only give me a place to mount belts, but it would also help stiffen the car.

I considered doing a swap for the Chrysler Seabring seats, but as a number people pointed out they kinda look crappy in a stang. One of the newer Saab convertibles has a much better looking seat with built in shoulder belts, but I haven't seen any of those for sale anywhere.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=699563&highlight=shoulder+belts
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=658596&highlight=shoulder+belts

 

[fun_1965_pony]

It sounds like there are 3 paths here: 1) put in a roll bar and hook them to that. 2) Attach them too low and possibly they are dangerous. 3) Add new seats. I have to admit I am not crazy about adding a bar or different seats, I really like the car the way it is. Mike, do you have a picture you could post? I think I can envision it. The belt unhooked would sit behind and against the panel behind the door jam. Did anyone put any 3 point belts in the back seat? I have 2 kids back there. Thanks, ACS

 

[68EFIvert]

I don't like the look of the kits to put 3 pt belts in our cars. I have a 68 convertible and added 3 pt belts to the front seats. I purchased generic 3pt belt kits and modified the aftermarket 3 pt belt ideas. Instead of having a metal plate showing from the door jam I hid everything. All you see is a stud coming from the interior panel.

I used existing holes in the interior quarter panel for a starting point. purchased a couple studs (grade 8) fine thread. I made metal plates that are 1/4" thick 1"*2" in size then drilled a hole in the plates and tapped them to match the studs. This is my backing plate. I had enough room to slide the backing plate between the metal on the quarter panel. Screwed the studs into the backing plate so that the interior panel is between them. I adjusted the studs to the proper depth and then welded them in place from the inside. I welded around the stud and then put two welds on top and bottom of the studs to stop it from rotating while installing the actual belts.

The end result will have a much beefier backing plate than the kits in addition to a cleaner install. I don't have any pictures of the setup at this time since the car is now at the body shop but if you need some let me know and I will see what I can come up with.

The best part is it was about 1/2 the price of the kits they are selling and I am using the same belts.

 

[runawayabc123]

I think you have to remember that a 3pt belt in a car that isn't nearly as safe as today's standards doesn't buy you much. (I saw you have kids in the back.)

You get hit from the rear and you burn to death unless you have fuel cell.
You hit something too hard and you get speared by the steering wheel.

Sure, every little bit helps, but you are really just puting a bandaide on a much bigger wound.

 

[S-Car-Go]

Then there's a slight tap from behind and you're in a neck brace (or worse) from whiplash. Seats with head rests would be a good thing.

 

[rc4mike]

Here's how the belt in my 65 looks. My 11 year old son had the idea to hide the retractor behind the panel rather than bolt in the footwell. My 911 convertible is setup the exact same way. The shoulder belt attachment is below my shoulder....just like my 65.

Mike

 

[htwheelz67]

I bought a roll bar for my 67, I plan on welding in bungs into my roll bar for harnesses. Some say the roll bar takes away from the look, but it adds ridgity to the car and a bit of saftey.

my vert http://htwheelz.smugmug.com

 

[suki243]

I saw a 65 gt 350 clone mustang vert at my painter once that had a roll bar / light bar it looked nice.
I also saw those bars that were on a hinge so you could open them up to get in easily.

I checked out those saab seats, they look cool too. I'd switch out seats just cause of the head rest, power seats and all, unless of course you want to stay stock.

 

[fun_1965_pony]

Thank you all for your help and pictures. I guess I have a lot more to think about. ACS

 

[Edbert]

I added headrests and swapped the solid shaft steering for a collapsible one. I installed a rollbar too since it's a soft-top. I have 4-point seat belts but have not decided how/where to mount them. My plan was always to do the 67-Shelby thing with them going back to the top of the rollbar, but folks say you'll "submarine" under them if they mount too high. Then I figured I can anchor them to the floor but then folks say you'll break your back with them too low. I might get them to connect to the seat itself, they are the type with pass-through holes for the belts already. The best alternative would be to install a crossbar onto the 4-point rollbar, but that would rule out the backseat completely from a safety standpoint.

HTWHEELZ, do you have any pictures of yours?


Also, I cannot go without saying this...
These cars are NOT the deathtraps that many say they are. The "media" loves to instill fear with their stories on the evening news. Hype sells soap you know. Remember the whole Ralph Nader thing, then the Pinto, then the GMC-1500 stories about fireballs and deathtraps and unsafe at any speed? Most of that turns out to be totally false or simply misleading at best. Remember the unintended acceleration from the Audi?

I've been driving 1960's American cars for almost 30 years now and have been hit by modern cars that were towed away while I drove away. Don't underestimate the armor value of good old American steel when you get hit by someone driving their tin-can with it's crumple zones. They might save your life at a 60MPH impact, but they just total your car in the 30MPH impact. Bet you can guess why the industry likes them, they get to sell more cars when they crush like that. As far as the media pundits go...well...it gives them a justification for having their day jobs I guess.

 

[jikelly]

I think you have to remember that a 3pt belt in a car that isn't nearly as safe as today's standards doesn't buy you much. (I saw you have kids in the back.)

You get hit from the rear and you burn to death unless you have fuel cell.
You hit something too hard and you get speared by the steering wheel.

Sure, every little bit helps, but you are really just puting a bandaide on a much bigger wound.

Right it's unsafe, he should give his car to me

 

[jikelly]

I checked out those saab seats, they look cool too. I'd switch out seats just cause of the head rest, power seats and all, unless of course you want to stay stock.

I've yet to see them for sale.

I was wondering if you could improve the shoulder belt placement in our classic convertibles if you went with seats like those found in the 90 something mustangs.

See how the mounting point for the shoulder belt is just as low as our old cars, but they make up for it with that plastic looking bracket under the head rest that holds the belt in place.

I think I might try going that route. We are going out to Dallas next weekend and I think I'll see if I cant find the seats and belts in a mangled 90 something stang. Could be just the thing. What do you guys think?

 

[runawayabc123]

Right it's unsafe, he should give his car to me

I was about to give you the keys, but then I saw you were considering buying a Chevy Volt and I am afraid I just can't do it now.

 

[fun_1965_pony]

You all have provided me with great ideas! Thanks! I guess if the car is so unsafe I will just have to go out without the kids more! BTW, I'm not handing in my keys either. ACS

 

[Pakrat]

I added headrests and swapped the solid shaft steering for a collapsible one. I installed a rollbar too since it's a soft-top. I have 4-point seat belts but have not decided how/where to mount them. My plan was always to do the 67-Shelby thing with them going back to the top of the rollbar, but folks say you'll "submarine" under them if they mount too high. Then I figured I can anchor them to the floor but then folks say you'll break your back with them too low. I might get them to connect to the seat itself, they are the type with pass-through holes for the belts already. The best alternative would be to install a crossbar onto the 4-point rollbar, but that would rule out the backseat completely from a safety standpoint.

HTWHEELZ, do you have any pictures of yours?


Also, I cannot go without saying this...
These cars are NOT the deathtraps that many say they are. The "media" loves to instill fear with their stories on the evening news. Hype sells soap you know. Remember the whole Ralph Nader thing, then the Pinto, then the GMC-1500 stories about fireballs and deathtraps and unsafe at any speed? Most of that turns out to be totally false or simply misleading at best. Remember the unintended acceleration from the Audi?

I've been driving 1960's American cars for almost 30 years now and have been hit by modern cars that were towed away while I drove away. Don't underestimate the armor value of good old American steel when you get hit by someone driving their tin-can with it's crumple zones. They might save your life at a 60MPH impact, but they just total your car in the 30MPH impact. Bet you can guess why the industry likes them, they get to sell more cars when they crush like that. As far as the media pundits go...well...it gives them a justification for having their day jobs I guess.

AMEN! As someone who got hit in back by a 91' Civic running a red light doing 65, I can attest that I did not suffer 3rd degree burns on 90% of my body and my car was yard driveable afterwards where as his grill was in the glovebox. Granted the lap belt wrenched my lower back severely and I broke my eyeglasses cutting my face when I head butted the steering wheel but the car was fixable and I am alive. Propoganda bites.

 

[suki243]

See how the mounting point for the shoulder belt is just as low as our old cars, but they make up for it with that plastic looking bracket under the head rest that holds the belt in place.

Sorry to hijack this thread briefly, but is that a solution to the below the shoulder mounting/ spine crushing issue that we have?