Cam install possible disaster.... Please help PTV?

[FavreOnSunday]

Just talked to a reputable engine builder and it has pretty much been determined that my intake valves are hitting the pistons. He said there is really no way of degreeing cams in a 2v motor because everytime you go back to re check your work the numbers are always off. He just installs them straight up and notches the pistons every single time. So his best advice is to run the motor pull the heads and take a dremel and finish notching the pistons where the valves left off. Then replace the valves and drive the car around. He said that there is no way to put in a comp cam in a 2v motor without the vlaves kissing the pistons, even the 262's. This is ESPECIALLY true on the non-pi motors that have flat top pistons.

Man, I sure hope you are wrong. I'm about to do a pi head swap on my 1996, & install Comp 270's. I researched for this set up for weeks. I've concluded that the 270's will clear my flat top pistons, but I will have to retard them. I also concluded that degreeing these cams is a must. I'm a n00b but I hope I'm right...

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106028&highlight=270+cams

 

[trinity_gt]

He said that there is no way to put in a comp cam in a 2v motor without the vlaves kissing the pistons, even the 262's. This is ESPECIALLY true on the non-pi motors that have flat top pistons.

I've got perhaps 7000KMs on my car now with 262AHs. Even though it sounds weird to me (mechanically a bit like a diesel), I would think that if PTV were the culprit, it'd be dead by now...

 

[hotstang_46]

He said there is really no way of degreeing cams in a 2v motor because everytime you go back to re check your work the numbers are always off. QUOTE]


That's a new one........ I don't think everything I've ever read about degreeing has been wrong.

 

[jivepepper]

Thats does not sound good at all. I think you have ptv. Did you use a cam retention tool? That's how I did mine and it worked fine. At the moment I still run the stock valve springs too,

 

[COramprat]

I've got perhaps 7000KMs on my car now with 262AHs. Even though it sounds weird to me (mechanically a bit like a diesel), I would think that if PTV were the culprit, it'd be dead by now...

I have even more miles on mine and although I also have what I attribute to noisy injectors I haven't had any issues after nearly 80K miles.

Not that this is been proven BUT I think that when the 96-98 or so motors were put together they were more carful about the timing being dead on than in the later years. In the 99 or later cars I think some have found that the timing was as much as 6 degrees off so installing the 270's or similar had more issues with PTV. This is just my opinion as I can't prove any of it but I hear far less 96-98 4.6's with PTV issues than the later years. A friend of mine installed 270's in his 98 similar to the way you did except with the cam tool (same one I used to do the 262's) with zero issues.

 

[stupidslow02gt]

Ok so the final word is................................. Valves were hitting! BUT. They only hit for approximately 2 days (two days of idleing and circling the block). So basically instead of fly cutting my pistons I went ahead and let my valves do the work The noise is gone but there are now little eye lids on the tops of my pistons near where the dish starts. So, for future reference for anyone who installs comp cams and hears a bunch of noise; if your motor is running and not missing or smoking, just let it idle for a while! Everything should work itself out.

Also, because I know about 6 people will be coming in to tell me that my valves are bent and that my motor is done and that its going to catch on fire and blah blah blah. (This will be coming from the guys who take their CATTED X PIPE to a shop to have it PROFESSIONNALY installed by the way) I did a leak down and compression test and everything is fine! No leaks and good compression on all cylinders.


Thank you to all who tried to help me, your advice is much appreciated. See you at the track!

 

[blkhorse]

Don't be so confident that your problems are over,I am curious to see if it lives through a track experience

 

[stupidslow02gt]

It will be fine, come to find out this is a common problem with you dont retard the came timing slightly, but the contact is almost non existant. I promise to come back and post if something fails. You never know who might find this thread useful in the future. This may be a terrible idea or it may pan out just fine. I personally dont give a sh1t if the motor lets go; so for me it works But im very confident that it wont.

 

[SonicStangGT]

It might quit on the 270's, but mine never did quit. Glad you got it right, are you going to get a tune, curious on what kind of power you gained. The machine told me when I dropped my stuff off that it would been done in a month, well today was a month and still havent heard from him. I going to give him till the end of the week and then I'am going to call. Got to get my car ready by summer so I can go to Mustang Week at Mrytle Beach this year. There having a drag night and there crusing to Darlingtion Drag which is a 1/4 mile and the only close strip to my house is a 1/8, so I'am looking forward to going. Hoping for low to mid 11's with the spray. lets us know if you get it dynoed.

 

[stupidslow02gt]

I will post the numbers up next week when its done. And do you have any idea what your setup is putting down? I like it...

 

[SonicStangGT]

Havent run it yet, waiting on machine shop. I bought the cams and put in back feb. Took me two weeks to finally decide that I was taking motor out. Took me another couple of weeks to get to it to take apart, work has been busy. Got it apart and took heads to get ported and polished and a valve job, they are also flycuting my flat top pistons for the valves. I just bought the LTs, h-pipe, plenum& TB, svt pump,cam gears all to go along with the head work aqnd cams. I'am hoping to reach 275 to 300 rwhp with motor and anywhere from 420 to 475 on spray. Comp says that the 278's are good for nitrous and forced induction so think with the nitrous there will be good numbers. Last time I was on the dyno I made like 227hp & 277tq on motor and 343 hp and 465 tq on a 125. I had only cai,x-pipe,flows and 125 then and also we tuned with the anderson pms. My na numbers were a little low I thought, but it wasnt a mustang dyno, every car he dynoed lower with him than anywhere else. I'am going to a different place this time. This guy has like 28 years at the place hes at now and specializes in Fords and I hate to say it Hondas. I'll post some more when I get my stuff or some numbers, good luck at the dyno.

 

[SonicStangGT]

Custom notched Pistons just seen your sig

 

['01 Steed]

That deiseling you hear is probably PTV contact.

BTW, the valve heads are hardened....not the valve stems. You WILL bend a valve. You will not be able to see this or bearing damage with a borescope.

Oh and FWIW, I personally installed everything on my car, and I happen to design Ford modular engines and components for a living, so you can't say I'm "checkbook racer".

If I come across as a prick, it's only because several people have offered you good advice, yet you've not only chosen not to take it, but you've dismissed them as idiots. (shakes head).

Good Luck!

 

[COramprat]

That deiseling you hear is probably PTV contact.

BTW, the valve heads are hardened....not the valve stems. You WILL bend a valve. You will not be able to see this or bearing damage with a borescope.

Oh and FWIW, I personally installed everything on my car, and I happen to design Ford modular engines and components for a living, so you can't say I'm "checkbook racer".

If I come across as a prick, it's only because several people have offered you good advice, yet you've not only chosen not to take it, but you've dismissed them as idiots. (shakes head).

Good Luck!

I don't think he has dismissed anyone as idiots. It's up to him whether he takes the advise. It reamians to be seen if thee will be issues down the road.

 

['01 Steed]

You're right, maybe that was a bit harsh.

 

[BobHyatt]

It will be fine, come to find out this is a common problem with you dont retard the came timing slightly, but the contact is almost non existant. I promise to come back and post if something fails. You never know who might find this thread useful in the future. This may be a terrible idea or it may pan out just fine. I personally dont give a sh1t if the motor lets go; so for me it works But im very confident that it wont.

I would be more worried about the valves. When the valve touches the piston top, something has to give, and quite often the valve bends very slightly, which gives a less than optimal seal at best, and will cause a sticking valve due to guide interference at worst.

Driving one to eliminate the PTV clearance issue is just about the most stupid idea I think I have ever heard... It is so far beyond stupid, it takes sunlight 6 months to get from stupid to that idea...

 

['01 Steed]

Then again, maybe it wasn't harsh.

 

[mransr]

It is so far beyond stupid, it takes sunlight 6 months to get from stupid to that idea...

it may be the margaritas talking...but that right there is funny, I don't care who you are