I am building a 408W stroker that will make 600hp. I will be running 4:11 gears in a 9" posi with a 3500rpm stall through a C4. I have intalled GrabaTrak suspension on the car with 4 1/2 leaf springs, Edelbrock IAS shocks all around, 620 lowering springs in the front (1" drop), 1" sway bar in front, and subframe connectors. I will be running MT ET Drag Radials 275/60/R15. I haven't put the engine in the car so I don't know how it will hook up. I was wondering what everyone's opinion about this setup is. Will it hook up? What should I do to improve the setup?
How do I hook up 600hp?
- Thread starter pdw5000
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I don't have first hand experience but I can tell you what my tuner said when he had them on his 67. He had a built 460 making the kind of power you are talking about and was able to get the car into the 10's on the first run. He only had 4 or 4 1/2 leaf springs (nothing special), normal shocks, slicks and caltracs. Before the caltracs he said he had a lot of traction issues. After the caltracs he said it hooked up great. His experience with them was years ago and he still gets gitty when talking about them.
That is about as much as I can help. I hope someone else chimes in.
That is about as much as I can help. I hope someone else chimes in.
SoCalCruising
Founding Member
For straight line acceleration, you need to be able to have the front end lift up. Your stiffer front springs and sway bar will limit both. Softer front springs and disconnecting the sway bar when at the track will help your 1/4 mi times. Also, drag specific shocks, or adjustable shocks would help, too. Softening the front suspension will compromise corner carving, but, hey, it's tough to have it all.
blown65
Founding Member
Yup, the 6 cyl springs and 90/10 shocks were good for .25 in the 60 for me. Probably would of been more if my converter was looser. Didn't spin too bad with the slicks, but I make no power down that low.
I wont really be able to make a direct comparison on the Caltracs since I'm also loosening up my converter a bunch too.
The front springs/shocks would be the cheap starting point IMO. Ride height over the 620's was about 1 to 1 1/2" higher. (brand new so prob settle some)
I wont really be able to make a direct comparison on the Caltracs since I'm also loosening up my converter a bunch too.
The front springs/shocks would be the cheap starting point IMO. Ride height over the 620's was about 1 to 1 1/2" higher. (brand new so prob settle some)
dodgestang
Active Member
dodgestang
Active Member
You will need a full cage.
If you want to use it as a street car then IMO you should run an aggressive road course style suspension to help keep you on the road when you are driving. Nothing worse than having your suspension unload on you when you are taking an exit ramp fast with a big motor screaming high revs
I would rather excel on the street and give up a little on the track than visa versa.
With that said...I only muster a puny 370 RWHP out of my 410c stroker through an AOD wiith a 3500 stall and 4.11 9 inch and it has run a best of 11.9 with a full street suspension (including the 1 1/8 front bar still bolted in and the 245 40 17 street tires on the front) using 17 inch drag radials in the back. I drive the car as often as I can to the office which is a 126 mile round trip and it is a blast to drive. I would not enjoy near as much if I had to climb over a cage every time I went out for a drive so I set my goal high 11s from the start.
Just as a note...4.11 and a c4 and a primarily street car....really don't go well together since you will get (and I know this because I used to drive a cammed up 351w with a c4 in a 67 fb as a daily driver when I was 18/9yrs old....6 MPG on a good day. What is the budget you are looking to do all this in?
If you want to use it as a street car then IMO you should run an aggressive road course style suspension to help keep you on the road when you are driving. Nothing worse than having your suspension unload on you when you are taking an exit ramp fast with a big motor screaming high revs
I would rather excel on the street and give up a little on the track than visa versa.With that said...I only muster a puny 370 RWHP out of my 410c stroker through an AOD wiith a 3500 stall and 4.11 9 inch and it has run a best of 11.9 with a full street suspension (including the 1 1/8 front bar still bolted in and the 245 40 17 street tires on the front) using 17 inch drag radials in the back. I drive the car as often as I can to the office which is a 126 mile round trip and it is a blast to drive. I would not enjoy near as much if I had to climb over a cage every time I went out for a drive so I set my goal high 11s from the start.
Just as a note...4.11 and a c4 and a primarily street car....really don't go well together since you will get (and I know this because I used to drive a cammed up 351w with a c4 in a 67 fb as a daily driver when I was 18/9yrs old....6 MPG on a good day. What is the budget you are looking to do all this in?
you can use the springs and shocks you have just disconnect the sway bar, it won't be the same as a more drag oriented suspension but it's a good compromise, the cal tracs would be a definite good thing as well. if you use a full roller front end that will help everywhere, street, strip and track. check out
www.opentrackerracingproducts.com
for the roller stuff. a good set of shocks will do wonders but they are generally mutually exclusive to what you want to do, be it regular street duty, strip or road course. there are good compromises like any adjustable shock, Koni, TCP, QA1, etc. but they aren't cheap if you want a cheaper way to go use regular non-gas monroe-matics out back and some sort of gas shock up front, this will help a lot on the strip and be decent for the street, the rears won't be so good for the road course but it doesn't appear to be your goal
www.opentrackerracingproducts.com
for the roller stuff. a good set of shocks will do wonders but they are generally mutually exclusive to what you want to do, be it regular street duty, strip or road course. there are good compromises like any adjustable shock, Koni, TCP, QA1, etc. but they aren't cheap if you want a cheaper way to go use regular non-gas monroe-matics out back and some sort of gas shock up front, this will help a lot on the strip and be decent for the street, the rears won't be so good for the road course but it doesn't appear to be your goal
Some suggestions, some have all ready been mentioned,
Leafspring car def go with the cal tracs, they work awesome
Change your front coil springs. The ones you have are way to stiff.
No sway bar. You can always disconnect it
front shocks, You would be best to use a true 90/10 shock. Calvert racing has them and are probably the only true 90/10 shock out there
Rear shocks, Rancho has an adjustable shock that works awesome, Calvert Racing again
Converter, Use a very reputable company that will build you a conv based on your engine combo, car specs and so on. Just buying a converter based on some one saying it has a 3500 stall speed or its advertised as such does not meen that is what it will be with your engine.
As bnickle said the opentracker rollerized front end stuff is excellent and will free up your front end greatly
If you get it all worked out and you are going tens at a track you will def need a roll bar/cage and other safety items or you will only go tens once and they will tell you good bye until you have the safety items required.
Remember its all about putting all that "600hp" to the ground and utilizing all of it. With a car thats set up for the "Street" stiff front springs and shocks, swaybar all your going to do is blow the tires off it. The older mustangs suspension is very tempermental. You can either go fast at the strip "10 seconds" or you can go fast around corners but you cant have it bolth ways
Good luck!
ken
ken
Leafspring car def go with the cal tracs, they work awesome
Change your front coil springs. The ones you have are way to stiff.
No sway bar. You can always disconnect it
front shocks, You would be best to use a true 90/10 shock. Calvert racing has them and are probably the only true 90/10 shock out there
Rear shocks, Rancho has an adjustable shock that works awesome, Calvert Racing again
Converter, Use a very reputable company that will build you a conv based on your engine combo, car specs and so on. Just buying a converter based on some one saying it has a 3500 stall speed or its advertised as such does not meen that is what it will be with your engine.
As bnickle said the opentracker rollerized front end stuff is excellent and will free up your front end greatly
If you get it all worked out and you are going tens at a track you will def need a roll bar/cage and other safety items or you will only go tens once and they will tell you good bye until you have the safety items required.
Remember its all about putting all that "600hp" to the ground and utilizing all of it. With a car thats set up for the "Street" stiff front springs and shocks, swaybar all your going to do is blow the tires off it. The older mustangs suspension is very tempermental. You can either go fast at the strip "10 seconds" or you can go fast around corners but you cant have it bolth ways
Good luck!
ken
ken
weight transfer, When you launch the car you need to transfer as much weight as possible to the rear tires Hence you want the front end to travel upwards this accomplishes transferring the weight to the rear tires so they do not spin. Stiff front suspensions do not transfer weight very well and you will spin the tires.
ken
ken
Travis77
Member
When you get to 600hp N/A, in a 408W it is a very fine line between street and all out race. I think caltracs would fit the bill if you do not spray it. My buddy is running a 393 with trans brake with just a 150 shot and has fought traction issues for a full year.
I would definately set this car up for handling instead of drag us. But then again everyones version of a street car is different. Have you thought about a 4 link with panhard? Another alternative is running mono leaf setup like someone already mentioned. I bought a set from Flex-a form but never ran them. These are extremely light and with there traction control device, would make for a good set up. Anyway you go it's still going to be a barn burner. But you may want to set your hp goals at 500 instead of 600. Good luck
I would definately set this car up for handling instead of drag us. But then again everyones version of a street car is different. Have you thought about a 4 link with panhard? Another alternative is running mono leaf setup like someone already mentioned. I bought a set from Flex-a form but never ran them. These are extremely light and with there traction control device, would make for a good set up. Anyway you go it's still going to be a barn burner. But you may want to set your hp goals at 500 instead of 600. Good luck
Hack
15 Year Member
4.11 gears with 600 hp on the street sounds nearly unmanageable to me, depending on how much low end power the engine has. I have never been in a car like that, but why are you choosing 4.11s? Do you have a time, speed and rpm for the 1/4 mile in mind and 4.11s get you through at redline with your tire diameter?
I would think for mostly street driving you could run 3.55s unless your car is REALLY heavy. It would be easier to hook the tires, better gas mileage and easier to drive on the street.
Otherwise, maybe it would be better to back half the car and run a 4 link with a panhard bar or something.
2 cents..
edit: you didn't say what the car is, but if it's a classic Mustang - expect that amount of power to destroy the chassis over time, especially if you get it to hook. IMO you will want to add subframe connectors plus any other possible kind of chassis reinforcement such as seam welding, etc. to try to preserve the car.
I would think for mostly street driving you could run 3.55s unless your car is REALLY heavy. It would be easier to hook the tires, better gas mileage and easier to drive on the street.
Otherwise, maybe it would be better to back half the car and run a 4 link with a panhard bar or something.
2 cents..
edit: you didn't say what the car is, but if it's a classic Mustang - expect that amount of power to destroy the chassis over time, especially if you get it to hook. IMO you will want to add subframe connectors plus any other possible kind of chassis reinforcement such as seam welding, etc. to try to preserve the car.
I agree with ealier comments that you can't have it both ways with 600HP on the street and hook up and run 10sec. i run a TKO600.82 manual with 4.11s and 447RWHP+ and this can be pretty cranky on slow turns and my suspension is tight for cornering and couldnot imagine hanging on to a big cam hi stall auto in that situation. I go to the local drag track because this is the only place that i can give my car full throttle safely my target is low 11s because i do not want to get into the cage situation and prepared to lose some time for streetability. A couple more issues for u to consider will a posi be strong enough, same with tailshaft, axles, casing, also to flow 600hp out the exhaust (dual 3")also makes a great noise but not to all and last of all if you are running power brakes u will need vacuum pump if u are thinking of having brakes.
I think I am going to try my current suspension setup and see what happens. I am going to install the Caltrack system as well. I want to use the high stall and the 4.11 gears to launch hard...plus my engine builder is building the engine for that setup. If it doesn't hook up to my satisfaction I will take up some of your suggestions. It is just my springs and shocks are brand new and I want to see how they do before I just go get another set. One other question is will the MT ET Drag Radials, 275/60/R15 hook up well? I have 15x8 weld pro star wheels. Is there a better tire out there?
I should also mention this car is a 68' coupe. I am installing subframe connectors and possibly a 4 point roll bar. Will this be enough to resist the chasis from twisting?
Thank all of you so much for your advice. It has been very helpful!
I should also mention this car is a 68' coupe. I am installing subframe connectors and possibly a 4 point roll bar. Will this be enough to resist the chasis from twisting?
Thank all of you so much for your advice. It has been very helpful!
SadbutTrue
Founding Member
if its a street car I'm not sure why you're running slicks. If the street is wet you'll kill yourself. You might want to make sure you know exactly what you're building this for... a car that needs slicks isn't going to be a good 'street' car.
I'm sorry I meant to say ET Street Radials.
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetRadial
http://www.mickeythompsontires.com/strip.php?item=ETStreetRadial
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