exactly.. hence why i asked his reasonings for it. there is no point unless ur gonna go f/i
how can i raise redline?
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exactly.. hence why i asked his reasonings for it. there is no point unless ur gonna go f/i
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that makes sense, i never thought about that. there is always a possibility of supercharching in the future, but i dont think i will right now. im still considering a 5.4 forged block, which will definitly flow better than a 4.6 4v. i talked to MMR and they say that a 5.4 can definitly make power that high. so that may be the route i go now
BurningRubber
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- Dec 6, 2004
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So basically what is being said now, is that a 2v bottom end is suitable for normal 7k runs such as a 4v bottom end would (excluding 03/04) see in its normal life; meaning the only difference is all in the heads and valvetrain?
Cobra's have a forged crank, GT's do not. GT cranks are good to over the 500hp mark, but would cast and forged really make that big of a difference for 1k RPM?
So IF this is true, then upgrade your valvetrain and run 7k all day long. Just realize 2v heads suck in flow capabilities to 4v's and it will take money to make them flow decently, and without spending that money you arent going to gain much if anything by spinning a motor that high.
A freind of mine and LONG time ASE cert. mechanic ran his STOCK 2v up to 7200 RPM's on spray multiple times to see what he could find as far as any potential, or possible potential to make more power higher up.
The motor never failed.
Over his years and more recently when he got big into the Mustang scene has realized there is minimal to be gained from even doing extensive headwork on a 2v head because they dont give much to work with.
Lets come to a conclusion here...
Cobra's have a forged crank, GT's do not. GT cranks are good to over the 500hp mark, but would cast and forged really make that big of a difference for 1k RPM?
So IF this is true, then upgrade your valvetrain and run 7k all day long. Just realize 2v heads suck in flow capabilities to 4v's and it will take money to make them flow decently, and without spending that money you arent going to gain much if anything by spinning a motor that high.
A freind of mine and LONG time ASE cert. mechanic ran his STOCK 2v up to 7200 RPM's on spray multiple times to see what he could find as far as any potential, or possible potential to make more power higher up.
The motor never failed.
Over his years and more recently when he got big into the Mustang scene has realized there is minimal to be gained from even doing extensive headwork on a 2v head because they dont give much to work with.
Lets come to a conclusion here...
The auto mach 1 had a lower rev limit (one can assume because the auto trans can't handle the revs) so it looks like they installed a cast crank to save money.
From the information above, I'd say to get factory reliablity, you should have a forged crank and an upgraded valve train. The valvetrain is probably simple as stiffer valve springs. I'm sure comp or another manufacture can help with this aspect.
It also makes no sense at all that a 5.4 would be able to rev higher than a 4.6 given the same heads. Flow is the limiting factor and you'll hit that limit earlier with the 5.4!
I still don't see the point in reving higher. Yes, revs build horsepower, but the real fun and what moves the car is Torque. If your going to spend that much money, go with a roots blower or nitrous instead. Build torque and (big)horsepower will follow.
My 2.3L doesn't rev as high as a bone stock PI, yet I ran a low 13 at 105mph. I was shifting just after 5500. It has the kind of torque that gives anyone a **** eating grin.
As I said, build torque and hp will follow.
From the information above, I'd say to get factory reliablity, you should have a forged crank and an upgraded valve train. The valvetrain is probably simple as stiffer valve springs. I'm sure comp or another manufacture can help with this aspect.
It also makes no sense at all that a 5.4 would be able to rev higher than a 4.6 given the same heads. Flow is the limiting factor and you'll hit that limit earlier with the 5.4!
I still don't see the point in reving higher. Yes, revs build horsepower, but the real fun and what moves the car is Torque. If your going to spend that much money, go with a roots blower or nitrous instead. Build torque and (big)horsepower will follow.
My 2.3L doesn't rev as high as a bone stock PI, yet I ran a low 13 at 105mph. I was shifting just after 5500. It has the kind of torque that gives anyone a **** eating grin.
As I said, build torque and hp will follow.
Stan Weiss
Member
I see a number of ported 2v heads that will produce between 450 and 500 N/A Flywheel HP at the 7K or more range in a 2v 4.6L with the correct cams and other modifications. Look at heads Fox Lake, BH Performance, C.A.P.A. Performance, M2 Race Systems, total engine Airflow
it makes sense to me. the 2v heads on a stock GT arent maxed out as to their flow capacity. they flow the air that a 4.6 at stock compression needs to flow. but with a 5.4, much more air will be moving into the combustion chamber. more displacement=more air flow. stock heads on a 5.4 would be the weakest point though b/c i could see them maxing out. thats why they would need some kind of headwork to increase flow.
im not wanting to rev higher just for the sake of revving higher, but the whole point is to continue to make more power in the higher rpms. even if i made the same power at 7k that i do at 6k, i would prefer it b/c it makes for a smoother powerband, plus there is less shifting, so less wear on the clutch.
oxfordgt
Member
Lets see some links to these 2v engines spinning to 7000 and making 450-500bhp. I am throwing the biggest BS flag ever on that statement. A fully built 2v will only make 370rwhp or around 425bhp NA. I have tried and that is about the limit.
Your logic doesn't make any sense at all. Given the same head and intake combination, a larger displacement engine will ALWAYS peak earlier. The 5.4 will TRY to move more air, but it will hit the same limit, wether it is the heads or the intake... the 5.4 will just hit the limit sooner. Sorry, but the 5.4 is not good for any kind of high rpm operation. The 4.6 has an equal bore and stoke, which isn't bad, but when you stroke it to 5.4, the bore-stroke ratio goes to crap. If you want to know why the 5.0 was so successful and could make power reving high, look at the bore-stroke ratio.
The comments in your 2nd paragraph make you sound like a clueless ricer. If you want to make the same power at a higher rpm, I'd suggest you destroke the 4.6 to about 3.8-4.0L. That will accomplish exactly what you are looking for... same power at a higher rpm.
Anyway, I'm done here as well. I hope to run into you on the street or the drag strip.
The comments in your 2nd paragraph make you sound like a clueless ricer. If you want to make the same power at a higher rpm, I'd suggest you destroke the 4.6 to about 3.8-4.0L. That will accomplish exactly what you are looking for... same power at a higher rpm.
Anyway, I'm done here as well. I hope to run into you on the street or the drag strip.
Stan Weiss
Member
isnt that what i typed in my previous post? lemme check
yup, that is what i wrote. and we're not talking much of a difference between a 4.6 and a 5.4. why can one rev to 7k no problem, but the other not? i know a longer stroke is not made to rev high, but we're not talking about a 7 liter engine here. we're only looking at a 6.65 stroke. ive already talked to a couple engine builders and both mave told me that a 5.4 can make power and safely rev to at least 7k rpms.
come on man, theres no need for name calling because you have a different view point. i didnt say i wanted the same amount of power at a higher rpm. i just said if that happens to be the case i wouldnt mind. it obviously wouldnt. the whole point of revving higher is to increase power and continue making more power for longer, rather than having to shiftSorry, but the 5.4 is not good for any kind of high rpm operation. The 4.6 has an equal bore and stoke, which isn't bad, but when you stroke it to 5.4, the bore-stroke ratio goes to crap. If you want to know why the 5.0 was so successful and could make power reving high, look at the bore-stroke ratio.
The comments in your 2nd paragraph make you sound like a clueless ricer. If you want to make the same power at a higher rpm, I'd suggest you destroke the 4.6 to about 3.8-4.0L. That will accomplish exactly what you are looking for... same power at a higher rpm.
Anyway, I'm done here as well. I hope to run into you on the street or the drag strip.
for example, when i race my dad's M3, i can keep up with him until i have to shift at 5500 rpms. then i fall behind because he keeps taching/making power until 8k rpms
oxfordgt
Member
The motor I built had stage 3 patriot heads, 5.1l stroker, 11:1 compression, custom cams, stock intake, and custom tune and it made 372rwhp. And was not streetable.
I see a number of ported 2v heads that will produce between 450 and 500 N/A Flywheel HP at the 7K or more range in a 2v 4.6L with the correct cams and other modifications. Look at heads Fox Lake, BH Performance, C.A.P.A. Performance, M2 Race Systems, total engine Airflow
i would love to see a video of an N/A 2v motor that has 500 hp. thats over 400 RWHP... even for pro builders the wall for a 2v motor is before 400 hp. the most iv ever seen was over the internet at 360-370 RWHP. so to see a 450-500 crank hp 2v n/a would be amazing.
Hoss, I'm sure you'd like to dazzle everyone here with your vast amounts of technical knowledge, but thus far in this thread you only seem to be pushing buttons and coming off as a "know it all", who actually seems to know nothing at all. If you're looking to gain any respect on the board, or make any friends here it wouldn’t hurt to take the volume and the attitude down a peg or two yourself. Nobody likes a smart mouth.....let alone one who claims to know what he’s talking about, but doesn’t back anything he says and only seems to have an opinion (usually negative) on what everyone else is saying. A touch of humility could go a long way here.
.....and for god sakes, clean up your sentence structure, would ya? Trying to read your broken internet slag makes us all think we're talking to some uneducated 13-year old who got hold of his moms lap top when she was in the shower.
Not chastising you here, just a friendly warning.
Hoss, I'm sure you'd like to dazzle everyone here with your vast amounts of technical knowledge, but thus far in this thread you only seem to be pushing buttons and coming off as a "know it all", who actually seems to know nothing at all. If you're looking to gain any respect on the board, or make any friends here it wouldn’t hurt to take the volume and the attitude down a peg or two yourself. Nobody likes a smart mouth.....let alone one who claims to know what he’s talking about, but doesn’t back anything he says and only seems to have an opinion (usually negative) on what everyone else is saying. A touch of humility could go a long way here.
.....and for god sakes, clean up your sentence structure, would ya? Trying to read your broken internet slag makes us all think we're talking to some uneducated 13-year old who got hold of his moms lap top when she was in the shower.
Not chastising you here, just a friendly warning.
all iv done is comment on the subject. this is a forum, i can talk however i want to...
and when i read something that goes against everything i have ever come across for the 2v im going to call it out. i have not broken any rules., deal with it.
EDIT: and the funny part is in my first post i told him what he needs to do it, bottom end and the parts to bring power, cams n heads... did u even read that part before u went on your little rant?
SaleenGT2001
Well-Known Member
yea those sub 400 cars are terrible to drive on the street. i think i'll go pick up some groceries on my 600HP 2V now............
SaleenGT2001
Well-Known Member
I'm sure he's not talking about the power. Probably refering to the idle and low speed driveability. Put in a wild enough cam, and the drivability goes to crap real fast.... not enough vacume to operate the brakes, lobes at idle, idles fast, bucks below 2k....
oxfordgt
Member
Your an idiot.
Let me guess you paid some guy to strap a supercharger to your engine and you have no idea how it works.
To build power like we were trying to build NA on a 2v the car becomes very unstreetable, it is a track car only. You would not be able to sit in traffic, or even take of smoothly from a stop light. Learn about engine building before you make smart ass remarks.
First off yes, this is an open forum and you’re welcome to express yourself in any manor you wish. That being said, if you want to make yourself come across as unintelligent sounding like the way you have been, you're more than welcome to, but in the same respect don't be surprised if your opinions are disregarded and/or even made fun of because of it.
Secondly, you seem to have a very condescending attitude in your replies. You may, or may not realize it but other members (including myself) have. A little more tactful and respectful approach to your responses will go a long way in your longevity here, so I suggest you heed my advice.
Chhhhiiiilllllll.
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