The Wilwood Superlite Brake Kit Thread

[70vert]

Hey all,
First I went with the Baer Track 13" kit, and ended up with a parking/e-brake issue with my EvM 3-Link rear suspension. Basically, no way to mount the e-brake with that system. I had no way of knowing the EvM would interfere, as I did the brake upgrade first. I liked the ease of finding replacement pads for the Baer kit and the fact that the Baer didn't push the wheel out as far as Wilwood does.

Then I thought I was just going to keep the Baer front and go with a basic 12" Wilwood internal drum rear disc - their "dynalite" I think? Simple fix to the problem, I could keep my Baer/PBR front brakes and go with Degins' drop spindle to get rid of my problem of a slight rubbing on my UCA under very hard braking, even with a 1/4" spacer. Would be weird having mismatched front and rear brakes but it would be an easy solution.

Then I realized that Wilwood's front kit pushes the wheel out, say, another 1/4" than my Baer kit. Perfect. Should take care of that UCA rub. New spindle required, but TCP makes 'em, no biggie. No need to have mismatched front and rear brakes.

So that's where I'm at now. Swapping my Baer 13" kit for a Wilwood 13" Superlite kit. It will fill out the wheels nicely, be light (lighter than Baer) and getting a new TCP spindle in the process. Advantages:

1. Pushes the wheel out a little farther for clearance
2. Internal drum inside the rear disc for a decent parking/e-brake. I have none now. Not acceptable to not have a mechanical e-brake backup system.
3. Wilwood MC brake "feel" is supposedly very good
4. 6-piston front, 4-piston rear versus 2-piston Baer
5. Slotted-only GT rotors are available
6. Link - may not go with TCP, but here is good info on the kit:
http://totalcontrolproducts.com/brakes_front_performance.html

Disadvantages: Gotta sell the Baer kit, feel like I am stepping backward on my progress or at least learning a little lesson . . .

Any thoughts? Or anyone want to comment in general on the Wilwood Superlite stuff, and the internal drum rear disc setup? We don't really have a specific thread for this that I could find.

 

[70vert]

I love how all the descriptions mention that the kit "may affect offset" but aren't that specific. I have an email in to TCP support on this. Their prices are actually pretty competitive with Summit and Jegs. I believe there is one kit that ends up with a 1/2" offset and one that doesn't, and I think it has to do with if you use OEM hubs or their own hubs. I'll see what TCP says. I'd like to use Wilwood hubs, as I also got new hubs with my Baer kit and so don't have the originals.

 

[68EFIvert]

Why don't you just keep your existing brakes and leave off the ebrake on the rear. Instead add a pinion mount ebrake. It looks trick and would be wayyyyyy cheaper than doing what you plan on doing. I think they cost about $300.

 

[freddiecougar]

Then I realized that Wilwood's front kit pushes the wheel out, say, another 1/4" than my Baer kit. Perfect. Should take care of that UCA rub.

According to Wilwood, that is not true with the 13" WW kit, only the 11-3/4" kit.
Not to burst your bubble, but I wouldn't want you to get the wrong parts.
Tim

 

[70vert]

yeah, freddiecougar, that's what I'm finding out now. By going with the new "zero offset" hubs it won't help my situation at all. I have an email into Wilwood as well to see if there are any parts that would help accomplish this. A thicker hat that still put the rotor in the same location??

The pinion mount - thought about it - I would rather have the e-brake mounted where the wheels actually are. Call me paranoid or old-fashioned, but I want the brakes to actuate right at the wheels. Then you don't have worries about the diff, axles, or anything else coming into play.

 

[SNAKEPILOT]

For good info on Wilwood brakes go to: http://www.hotrodsusa.com/store/brakesmustang.html
They are very detailed about offset and spindle requirements. Their tech support guy was very helpful too.
I have Wilwoods front and rear (I wanted matching rotors that you couldn't get with Baer). I went with plain rotors for a bling free look. The extra 1/8" of the 1.25 wide rotors looks awesome.
For your clearance issues, instead of spacing your wheels out, look at the difference in the design of your UCA and TCP's latest offering. That may give you the clearance you need.
I am in the process of swapping out my Global West UCAs with TCPs because the GW hit my wheels about a 1/2 turn before full lock. It may not happen with all 4.75 offset wheels but Global West no longer recommends 4.75 offset with their UCAs. There are still links to their old website which are online that recommend a 4.75 offset.

 

[Jon350]

Any thoughts?

Gimmee the Baer's.......it'll be like donating to the needy

 

[70vert]

Was hoping to not have to do another UCA or full coilover

at Jon350. I knew somebody was going to ask that. I will donate to the needy, and no better place to start than at home by selling 'em! They'll be on the block as soon as I get this all sorted out.

Snakepilot - good stuff! I missed that you could order the upper arm on its own. While I wasn't looking to add another $650 to my total bill, that should do it. I know they currently have a thinner knuckle up there. It's the TCP-UCA-04 arm for a '70 since I already have the Shelby/Arning holes drilled. I actually just got off the phone with TCP, and the phone guy (Dale? Derek?) was pretty knowledgeable when I mentioned I had the Unique knockoff of their stuff. No matter what, this is step 1 of the whole process, then I look at the Wilwoods after I have it installed and there's no rubbing. This gives me better wheel placement than pushing the wheel out farther anyway, so it's a good way to do it.

They should be here in a couple days - with any luck, installed next week and realigned. Then I can see what the clearance issue looks like and go from there.

Thanks Snakepilot! It's good to be making progress on my rubbing UCA issue, felt like I was backsliding with this whole issue of having bought the wrong brake kit in the first place . . . I still like the Baer, but the rear suspension getting in the way of the e-brake made that the wrong choice in hindsight. I always thought the Wilwoods pushed the wheel out on the front, but apparently not with the Superlite . . .

 

[Jon350]

70vert- You can't blame me for trying! hehehe....but on a more serious note, how much do you think you'll be letting them go for??? I'm always in the mood for a good deal on performance parts...

 

[70vert]

Jon350, it's the kit Streetortrack sells, for a '70 OE drum spindle and small-bearing rear. (I have an 8") 13" rotors, slotted not drilled, calipers look like the non-polished here: (the red lettering and unpolished calipers would look good with your red paint, not too gaudy)

http://www.streetortrack.com/Baer-Brakes-TRACK-front-kit-4261027-pr-16269.html

PM me with an offer, but it could be MONTHS. I have to figure out my 9" rear and if I am going to a narrower housing before I order these. It will be a big-bearing rear so the mounting will be different - the rear has to fall into place the same time as the brakes.

 

[reenmachine]

According to Wilwood, that is not true with the 13" WW kit, only the 11-3/4" kit.
Not to burst your bubble, but I wouldn't want you to get the wrong parts.
Tim

Tim-
I wasn't able to get a straight answer out of anyone at Wilwood about the 13" kit. The 11-3/4" kit pushes the wheels out 3/4" per side and that totally screwed me up on the '68 in the shop here. I thought that one possible fix would be to upgrade to their 13" kit but they could not give me a definitive answer about the wheel spacing issue...do you know for sure?

So, I'm swapping everything out for SSBC instead.

 

[70vert]

I think the issue is that the 13" superlite comes with the "zero offset" hubs and hats as well. In a few places I have seen that that kit doesn't move the wheels out. Check this hotrodsusa link - they seem to have the best info - and you will see that a number of the kits have Footnote 4 - "Note 4: Special kit does not move wheels out 1/2" per side." Interesting to note that the kits here that have Footnote 4 do not also have Footnote 8 and 12:

http://www.hotrodheaven.com/

Note 8: Backing plate mount holes must be drilled & tapped on disc brake spindles.
Note 12. No guarantee holes on reproduction spindles are correctly machined

and everything with Footnote 4 also has Footnote 6, "special brackets supplied by HotrodsUSA"

In any case, I have to assume that with what TCP produces, their UCA, their repro disc 70-73 spindle, and their 13" brake kit mesh up pretty well together. If not, what we have here . . . is a failure to communicate!

 

[valley82]

I have TCP's spindles, and the willwood 13" brakes...no difference in front track width, if you go to the TCP website, click on "forged spindle"(right side) then click on the "expanded applications chart"(right side), then scroll down to the "front brake section" it shows that the 11 3/4" (note #4) pushes the wheel out 3/4" per side.
Hope this helps as I went through this same headache I few months ago.

 

[70vert]

valley, looking good! Do they have a 12.19/2" kit available in the GT rotors that are slotted only? If so, I'd probably go with it on the rear - why add more unsprung weight to the rear brakes where it's not needed? What wheels did you go with? (I am hoping Coy's C-67 like mine, as I see you mention 4.75bs and you've got an Eleanor-ish paint job there) I will use the diagram they provide to check brake clearance to the wheel, but would love to hear a "yeah, it works" from a guy with the same setup as me.

I looked at TCP and Hotrodheaven, and it looks like, from the options they have there, that you can indeed get the 12.2" on the rear, and even 6 piston polished superlite calipers, for a lot less than TCP does their rear 13" Superlite kit for. Front kit with polished Superlite 6 is about the same, and they don't mention if the kit is plain rotors or slotted rotors, but I assume you could specify. They have a ton of options, but it's kind of confusing how the options relate to each other. I am also a little wary of their "special brackets by hotrodsusa" - I don't want to introduce another variable to my front wheel fitting right, now that I'm so close. But the polished 6 calipers on all fours is very attractive, as well as the smaller 12" rear. Those Extreme Street and race 1.25" rotors and Gen 3 calipers seem pretty sick if you were to build a real track car . . .

 

[valley82]

I have the 13 inch in front, and the 12.19 inch rear w/ internal parking brake.
This setup does not change the track width front or rear.

 

[70vert]

Got TCP upper arms today

side note . . . amazingly, they shipped me the ones that matched the "pebbled" or "dimpled" powdercoated silver and black from my UP coilovers. I was assuming they would be TCP blue. Accident or are they really that much of a class act? Big points for professionalism from TCP, and unexpected too!

 

[reenmachine]

side note . . . amazingly, they shipped me the ones that matched the "pebbled" or "dimpled" powdercoated silver and black from my UP coilovers. I was assuming they would be TCP blue. Accident or are they really that much of a class act? Big points for professionalism from TCP, and unexpected too!

They really are that much of a class act, but that's the finish they're shipping pretty much everything in now.

 

[valley82]

70 vert - I have the hopster 17x8 w/4.75bs I have no issues with the upper control arm or the calipers.

 

[70vert]

Well, I bit the bullet and two pieces are falling into place - the Currie rear and now the Wilwood Superlite kit. Ordered them both today. I went with TCP, as they were able to custom order it with a polished caliper and slotted "GT" rotors, so if you're looking for a custom kit, they'll do it. I went with the 1" MC with my manual pedal. I had to do it at the same time as the 9" rear so I could specify the big-bearing 9" 2.5" offset for the Currie crate rear.

So, after it's all done, I can report on:
1. How it compares to the Baer kit
2. How it mounts up with the TCP arms. Better work, since my UP arms are basically theirs, with a QA1 shock instead of the Aldan Eagle
3. How the rears work with Evolution Motorsports' suspension - the parking brake shouldn't interfere with anything.
4. How poor I am. No vacations this year, honey! :-D

Hope I can get some good money for my Baer kit!

 

[gsxrken]

Did you get the 6 piston calipers for the front? They offer two different overall caliper bore sizes, and you want the larger one, especially with manual brakes. IIRC, the small 6 piston actually has less bore diameter than their larger 4 piston caliper. Can't tell you why...