Roush Cobra m112 and Tork Tech kit

[mat82284]

Right now i have a saleen series 1 supercharger and i only paid 1600 for the complete kit which at the time i figured was a great deal, but now im wishing i bought at least a series II or 4. I have been looking at ebay and noticed that these supercharger kits complete sell for around 2k. i was thinking of selling just the head unit, intercooler and intake on ebay and buying the tork tech 03/04 cobra kit

Tork Tech Inc. - **'99-04 GT Supercharger-less Kit Using a '03/04 Cobra Blower **'

what do you guys think, is it worth the upgrade? if i get say $1500 for my series I then i can pay another 1k and have a m112 on my car (figuring used ebay m112 at $500) would i see much of an increase of performance over what i have now? is it worth the extra 1k? Has anyone done this or thought about it? My original goal was 360hp which i didnt make that, and i only got 320hp on a mustang dyno. I would like to be at 400/400 and that's it because im on a stock bottom end. but 380 would be perfect. Do you think 1k is worth 60-80hp depending on if the m112 cobra supercharger can produce those numbers on the 2v? i know they do on the 4valve but does anyone really know?

 

[eviligloo]

I'm in the exact same boat you're in! I'm looking to hit around 400rwhp.....and I don't want to forge or go higher because of stock internals. My car is already fast....but I could always inch a little closer to the safe upward limits of the 2v motor.

I have a series II S/C (came stock on my car) and I'm debating whether to get the torktech setup for it (I can use the existing eaton M90 and just purchase the plenum, air inlet tubes, etc. etc. for about $1100 or I can buy the M112 setup for $3700. They offer just the inlet portion for people that have the series II S/C.

The problem that I have, though, is that I won't be doing the install and so I would have to pay for 10 hours of labor to install it (approx. $850) plus dyno time and time to tune it. I don't really have $5k to drop on a brand new supercharger and M112 setup....and I don't know that I'd get a lot if I sold my series II supercharger.

Currently I'm leaning toward keeping the series II eaton M90, getting the chicane intercooler (roughly 30rwhp) and going with the torktech setup. I already have a heat exchanger on the way and I have a 66mm chicane pulley...so I should be in the neighborhood of 390-400rwhp with that setup.

The TorkTech website advertises about 380rwhp with the M112 kit with the intercooler, heat exchanger, etc. etc. and promises room for a lot more power.....but really what's the point if you're not going to forge the motor? You'll have a blower that can take tons of power but you're not going to use most of the potential unless you forge the engine.

It's a tough call. Do you think you'd still get around $1500 for the series I if you resold it? Wanna buy a series II S/C? lol

 

[mat82284]

I'm in the exact same boat you're in! I'm looking to hit around 400rwhp.....and I don't want to forge or go higher because of stock internals. My car is already fast....but I could always inch a little closer to the safe upward limits of the 2v motor.

I have a series II S/C (came stock on my car) and I'm debating whether to get the torktech setup for it (I can use the existing eaton M90 and just purchase the plenum, air inlet tubes, etc. etc. for about $1100 or I can buy the M112 setup for $3700. They offer just the inlet portion for people that have the series II S/C.

The problem that I have, though, is that I won't be doing the install and so I would have to pay for 10 hours of labor to install it (approx. $850) plus dyno time and time to tune it. I don't really have $5k to drop on a brand new supercharger and M112 setup....and I don't know that I'd get a lot if I sold my series II supercharger.

Currently I'm leaning toward keeping the series II eaton M90, getting the chicane intercooler (roughly 30rwhp) and going with the torktech setup. I already have a heat exchanger on the way and I have a 66mm chicane pulley...so I should be in the neighborhood of 390-400rwhp with that setup.

The TorkTech website advertises about 380rwhp with the M112 kit with the intercooler, heat exchanger, etc. etc. and promises room for a lot more power.....but really what's the point if you're not going to forge the motor? You'll have a blower that can take tons of power but you're not going to use most of the potential unless you forge the engine.

It's a tough call. Do you think you'd still get around $1500 for the series I if you resold it? Wanna buy a series II S/C? lol

we'll first things first. Either way you look at it maxing out that m90 is not good at all. So adding the additional intake pipe would be a sweet upgrade but not worth $1100 at all. You can upgrade the supercharger its self to a m112 cobra one for 1k-1.5k by selling your current supercharger Head unit and lower manifold only. Keeping the coolant tank, lines, and head exchanger. Either way you look at it you have to upgrade to 42lb injectors and a fuel pump if you havnt already, because anything above 350hp those 30's are totally maxed.

I Wouldn't buy the tork teck kit unless you want there supercharger, which is a good one. But the cobra should be enough for us to hit 400 and still have room for more. The m90 would be maxed and our saleen intake manifolds suck and it creates alot of heat. So the tork tech manifold would be a big improvement. The cobra route also has it only pulley system which makes belt slip almost non existent.

I've seen quite a few saleen chargers sell for 2k plus on ebay but most were full kits including coolant tank and heat exchanger. I think 1500 is very achievable.

As for the install, i installed mine in 2 days. It was fairly easy and i didnt have any issues other than some hard bolts to loosen. Removing the intake and putting on the new one should be much easier than removing the whole kit. I suggest installing it your self because its not difficult at all, its just bolt on's And if you dont know already, that 1100 tork intake system will require you to remove the supercharger to be able to access those back bolts that hold that restrictive plastic intake in place right now, which is almost the same amount of time in labor that swapping the chargers out with the new m112.

Has anyone done this setup before, what about the tork tech setup?

 

[eviligloo]

yes....but its a matter of money in this case. the torktech setup with inlet and without heat exchanger is $3400 plus shipping. Then you still need 42lb injectors ($325). Tuning and dyno are up in the air (let's say $500 for simplicity). If you're not doing the install (which I am certainly not qualified for), then that's another $850. All that and you'll hit 385rwhp according to torktech.

Intercooled Supercharger Tuner Kit for the '99-04 Mustang GT - Click for more info.

Total expense: $5075 for an M112 setup

I wouldn't count on getting much for the series II EatonM90 on ebay. They're going for about $300-400 for the S/C if you look at closed sales.

Meanwhile.....chicane intercooler (30rwhp) is $1600 installed. Tork Tech setup is $1100 with approximately $510 install (another 25-40rwhp) Fuel injectors are still $325. Assuming $500 in tuning and dyno again...you're looking at $4k for around 400rwhp.

We're talking about a 2v engine here. Unless you want to forge....you're on borrowed time as soon as you get to 425-450rwhp.

Buying an M112 that you're never going to use is like having a ferarri and keeping it under 35mph. What's the point?

Why spend over $1k more to get 15-20 less hp? The potential is there with the M112, but you're never going to use it because you'd have to forge your engine to get more out of it. You're just underusing the blower and spending more money for less power. Sure the eatonM90 isn't the greatest...but I've already got one making 340rwhp.

Everyone feel free to chime in. Supercharger discussions always devolve into someone saying "the M90 sucks. get a KB".....but I don't understand the logic behind that if you're not going to forge the engine....especially when you already have a supercharger that came stock with the car.

If I was N/A...then this would be a completely different discussion.

 

[mat82284]

If I was N/A...then this would be a completely different discussion.

I think your miss understanding what im talking about. I'm talking about buying a cobra m112 not there kit. So for just 2000 you can get the intake kit and then buy a m112 (03 cobra model) on ebay for $500 or less (ive seen them sell for that) So far the total is only 2500, for the average person who wants to upgrade. So let me break it down for you.


My Total Cost
Lower intake Manifold with intercooler $2000
03 Cobra m112 $500
Tune $400 (thats what i paid 2 months ago)
Laber $0
Sell Saleen supercharger -$1500
Fuel Injectors $ (already have)
Total of $1400 for a bigger more reliable supercharger (that can give you more power if you upgrade your engine which ill be doing eventually)

Your Total Cost
Lower intake Manifold with intercooler $2000
03 Cobra m112 $500
Tune $400
Labor $600 to remove saleen and install tork teck
Tune $400
Sell Saleen on ebay -$1500
injectors $400
Fuel Pump $100
Total of $2900 for you, but for anyone who doesn't need the labor it'll be $2300 minus a few hundred if you already have a fuel system.

if you buy used injectors you can bring it down $200. I bought a used set of 42's on ebay for $200 and sold my 30's for $140 so i only paid $60 for them.

As for seeing the m90's sell on ebay for $400 you are right, but those are not saleen m90's saleen m90's are the only ones that work on the 4.6 you can not make an m90 fit a mustang without a lower intake which is extremely costly. Here is one on ebay now at $1900 so i think its easly possible to get $1500 for it, if you still done believe me then ill pay you $500 for your m90 with lower intake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999...015QQitemZ250294296229QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
His is not even a complete kit, missing water pump, computer, Heat exchanger, throttle cable, cruise control cable, iac sensor in intercooler, saleen water hose pipe and there might be more, but thats just what i noticed from the photo. Not to mention he has a 0 feedback so anyone who has 50+ will get more money for it.

either way you go a m112 will be less stressful on your engine by producing more power with less heat and boost so your engine will last longer. You also dont have to worry about loosing boost from belt slip, unless you buy that extra pulley system for the m90 $150. This is a more cheap/practicle upgrade than say a kenny bell, unless you want $600hp. In the end i want a max of 450-500 nothing more because i don't want to make it not street drivable. So with minimal engine work ill be there with that m112. I can see one problem with this though, if you dont have 3k up front to buy it all then your not ready to upgrade. Or you can sell your saleen unit first then buy the kit and loose your car for a week or two.

i dont know if you know but its extremely rare to see any m90 above 360hp. You better have good compression ratios to get that high. Plus all that heat is bad for your engine. The Chiane does help but is not worth it in the end because the m90 is still efficient. Right now im pushing 320hp with my mods and a custom bracket that keeps the hot air from going down the sides of the intercooler and it has help alot, i gained 25hp from it. but im still no where near 350. I also dynoed on a mustang dyno so i guess my numbers could be low because of that. But mustang dynos are the hp you will see in real world conditions as where Dyno jet is not.

 

[eviligloo]

ahhh....ok i see. thanks for the link to that auction.

So you're keeping the intake side of your current setup, right? So you'd keep your TB, maf, etc. etc....

Going with the option you suggested I don't think would quite get me to 400rwhp....because I don't have anything on the intake side in terms of upgrades. The entire tork tech kit with heat exchanger, air intake, cobra tb, larger intake plenum and the M112 got them to 385. I'd still have to do a little more modification to get there.

I'll probably sit down with my shop guy and see what options I have. This is one I'll explore, though. Thanks for the help!

By the way...one of the reasons I'm at 340 is because I have a smaller pulley. I already have the upgraded fuel pump...so I'm set in that area.

 

[mat82284]

ahhh....ok i see. thanks for the link to that auction.

So you're keeping the intake side of your current setup, right? So you'd keep your TB, maf, etc. etc....

Going with the option you suggested I don't think would quite get me to 400rwhp....because I don't have anything on the intake side in terms of upgrades. The entire tork tech kit with heat exchanger, air intake, cobra tb, larger intake plenum and the M112 got them to 385. I'd still have to do a little more modification to get there.

I'll probably sit down with my shop guy and see what options I have. This is one I'll explore, though. Thanks for the help!

By the way...one of the reasons I'm at 340 is because I have a smaller pulley. I already have the upgraded fuel pump...so I'm set in that area.

Actually you will have to have the 03 cobra throttle body and plenum as well, is basicly the same thing that your going to pay for for 1100. Then you can buy any throttle body you wish or use the stock 03 cobra one.

well your doing better than me, i also have a 9psi pulley and i only got 320hp. I believe the series 1 is much more restrictive than the series II thats why you get more power. The other bad thing about series I is i cant even get that tork tech intake kit at all because it wont fit the series I only II+

Yea talk to your shop guy see how much he wants to install the supercharger (if he says he has to charge you twice because he needs to remove the Superchager to install another one then walk away! it should only 6-8 hours max which is the same as 1 supercharger install either way he has to remove parts, so if he says 16 hours walk away. I like the m112 just because its bigger and it has a louder whine which i love.