I just scored a rebuilt 69' 351W long block. Is it capable of making 400+ hp with stock heads (home ported) and rotating assembly? I'm thinking a Funnel Web, solid lifter cam, ported stock heads, electronic ignition, etc...
Ideas?
Ideas?
351W 400hp??
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mrmustangman357
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mrmustangman357
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roller cam, AFR or TFS heads, a nice performer rpm air gap, with the right roller cam and you will be solid 400 hp, but stock heads no-go
400 is a piece of cake with aftermarket heads...
Be wary of the new AFR 185cc closed chambered heads. I tried to order some and month after month it was "we are about to start making them."
I ended up going with a bare set of Victor Jrs for my 351, by time I got the valves and everything it worked out to be about the same as the cost of the 185s, but I would imagine they flow more.
Be wary of the new AFR 185cc closed chambered heads. I tried to order some and month after month it was "we are about to start making them."
I ended up going with a bare set of Victor Jrs for my 351, by time I got the valves and everything it worked out to be about the same as the cost of the 185s, but I would imagine they flow more.
mrmustangman357
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the key to making power with your combo needs to rely on heads, cam, and intake that work together. The TFS stuff is nicely priced and components are tested together. I'm sure the TFS tech line has a list of combos they can ramble off with horsepower numbers, plus make recommendations
but if you can afford it: AFR FTMFW
but if you can afford it: AFR FTMFW
69gmachine
Member
Yes there are at least a half dozen aftermarket aluminum heads that could easily make 400hp on a 351W.
However, I wouldn't count out the stock heads so fast. The 1969 Muscle parts catalog had an article in it where they built up a hot 351W using parts out of the catalog. Starting with an 11:1 4bbl engine they added a hotter cam (with ancient cam technology), the C90X intake, a Holley carb (I think 650cfm, again out of the catalog) and headers (which may have been the only thing not in the catalog) and made around 340hp IIRC. Maybe someone has a copy of the Muscle Parts catalog they could reference??
Now if you removed the thermactor bump and gasket matched the exhaust ports and installed 1.9 intake valves with a good multi angle valve job and installed a modern hydraulic roller cam, and modern electronic ignition, I'd bet you could get 400hp. You may not consider them "stock" heads with that much work, but my money says it wouldn't take anything radical as far as port work goes. You would probably also need to convert them to screw in rocker studs, so it would be cheaper to just start with aluminum heads in the first place. If you're into the "correct" look though, I'm sure it CAN be done.
However, I wouldn't count out the stock heads so fast. The 1969 Muscle parts catalog had an article in it where they built up a hot 351W using parts out of the catalog. Starting with an 11:1 4bbl engine they added a hotter cam (with ancient cam technology), the C90X intake, a Holley carb (I think 650cfm, again out of the catalog) and headers (which may have been the only thing not in the catalog) and made around 340hp IIRC. Maybe someone has a copy of the Muscle Parts catalog they could reference??
Now if you removed the thermactor bump and gasket matched the exhaust ports and installed 1.9 intake valves with a good multi angle valve job and installed a modern hydraulic roller cam, and modern electronic ignition, I'd bet you could get 400hp. You may not consider them "stock" heads with that much work, but my money says it wouldn't take anything radical as far as port work goes. You would probably also need to convert them to screw in rocker studs, so it would be cheaper to just start with aluminum heads in the first place. If you're into the "correct" look though, I'm sure it CAN be done.
Hack
15 Year Member
I gotta agree that aluminum heads are your best bet. Yes it is possible to make 400 HP with stock heads, but I think it would be tough for a novice to do it.
dennis112
15 Year Member
Agreed. Tough for a novice to do and the cast heads are really not worth putting too much $$ into.
I would build a good motor with the old block, and use a late model roller 351w if you want something to drive around.
The retro-fit rollers are junk and I don't think its worth paying $20 less for link-bar hydros vs a solid.
I would imagine with a decent OTS cam like a TFS stage 2 or a comp 274, you could make ~300rwhp and ~350rwtq with that c4.
The retro-fit rollers are junk and I don't think its worth paying $20 less for link-bar hydros vs a solid.
I would imagine with a decent OTS cam like a TFS stage 2 or a comp 274, you could make ~300rwhp and ~350rwtq with that c4.
the stock 69 351w heads will make great power with a basic home porting job. the main thing to concentrate on is the exhaust ports which have the goofy thermactor bumps, those need to go bye-bye. open the intakes just a little bit, really not much more than a good gasket match but blended a little further in, and smooth everything out really good with extra attention paid to the bowls. you could even use the stock sized valves but make sure to use stainless vlaves with undercut stems, the difference between 1.94/1.60 valves and the stock sized 1.84/1.54 windsor valves just isn't really enough of a gain to worry about IMO, you'll get more flow from the undercut stems and the valves won't be nearly as shrouded. there is a reason why ford STILL uses that size on most of the FRPP aluminum heads.
you can also keep the stock valvetrain and still get screw in studs if you prefer the stealthiness of that type of system. Mr gasket and others make a conversion kit to convert your stock heads to screw in studs without having to use guideplates, basically you just have to tap the stock rocker stud holes and screw in the new studs.
i would also CC and polish the chambers and try to open them up just a bit to around 64cc, this will give you right around 10:1-10.25:1 static compression with stock style flat tops which should be just about right provided you have the right cam to bleed off some of that static compression.
you could go with a set of power heads CNC ported stock heads, Welcome To POWERHEADS. Your High Performance Engine Specialist for a really radical set of ported stock castings but they cost almost as much as a decent set of aluminum heads and easily as much if not more than the cheapo aluminum heads.
FRPP has a nice of aluminum gt-40 heads with stock size valves and late modelbolt down rockers that will work perfect with some 93 cobra/crane energizer 1.7 roller rockers and you have a choice of 60cc or 64cc chambers. yes there are better heads out there but throw a coat of ford bluse engine paint on these and nobody will be able to tell them apart from your stock iron castings without tearing the valve covers off or using a magnet, they even have the stock style ford freeze plugs in the ends of the heads unlike most aftermarket SBF heads, which is one of the main reason i like them, plus the bolt down rockers so i'll be able to use the inexpensive cobra roller rockers, which are also available from FRPP as well.
i like sleepy, stock looking engines in my cars so i'd opt for some seriously ported stock castings or the FRPP's for my car, but that's just my choice and everyone has their own choices.
you can also keep the stock valvetrain and still get screw in studs if you prefer the stealthiness of that type of system. Mr gasket and others make a conversion kit to convert your stock heads to screw in studs without having to use guideplates, basically you just have to tap the stock rocker stud holes and screw in the new studs.
i would also CC and polish the chambers and try to open them up just a bit to around 64cc, this will give you right around 10:1-10.25:1 static compression with stock style flat tops which should be just about right provided you have the right cam to bleed off some of that static compression.
you could go with a set of power heads CNC ported stock heads, Welcome To POWERHEADS. Your High Performance Engine Specialist for a really radical set of ported stock castings but they cost almost as much as a decent set of aluminum heads and easily as much if not more than the cheapo aluminum heads.
FRPP has a nice of aluminum gt-40 heads with stock size valves and late modelbolt down rockers that will work perfect with some 93 cobra/crane energizer 1.7 roller rockers and you have a choice of 60cc or 64cc chambers. yes there are better heads out there but throw a coat of ford bluse engine paint on these and nobody will be able to tell them apart from your stock iron castings without tearing the valve covers off or using a magnet, they even have the stock style ford freeze plugs in the ends of the heads unlike most aftermarket SBF heads, which is one of the main reason i like them, plus the bolt down rockers so i'll be able to use the inexpensive cobra roller rockers, which are also available from FRPP as well.
i like sleepy, stock looking engines in my cars so i'd opt for some seriously ported stock castings or the FRPP's for my car, but that's just my choice and everyone has their own choices.
golf4283
Active Member
The motor has a set of dished .030 pistons in it now. What do you all think the compression would be with 58cc heads? The 351w heads are 58cc correct? Also, will the 5.0 style roller lifters work with a standard roller cam in the early block? I have a set left over from when I built my 5.0 motor. I have ported heads before with good luck and if I can't afford some aftermarket heads, I'll just port the stock ones. I just need to sell my 289 stuff before I do anything. Anyone need a 289?
the dished pistons in a 69 351w would have been about 9.5:1 and the heads are 60cc chambers NOT 58cc. most aftermarket 351w dished pistons will lower your compression quite a bit over stock so you're probably at 9:1 or so with those pistons and the stock heads. you really need a set of flat tops or zero deck the block with the pistons you have.
the 5.0 roller lifters will work in an early 351w block but you'll need to run a special small base circle cam. personally i'd use the roller cam you have with some comp or crane link bar hydraulic roller lifters, they cost quite a bit more but they don't wear out and you can re-use them with any standard hydraulic roller cam you wish
Just the info I was looking for. I'm just not used to the big Windsor. I dont have a cam yet so that choice is up in the air.
I'm going to see if I can get a set of Windsor Jr's or the sort and run possibly a TFS Stg 2 roller cam.
if you wanna use the TFS cam you'll definitely need the link bar lifters then . the reason is that the lifter bores on the early blocks are shorter than the late model roller blocks and the oil holes in the lifter will poke out of the bore instantly collapsing the lifter.
another option, though not the greatest one, would be to have the lifter bores opened up and have a bronze liner/bushing installed that is taller then the lifter bore to keep the lifter oiling hole from "exiting the building" so to speak. the problem with this is that the bronze bushing wears faster than the iron block and is a bit more fragile as well. this is "ok" in a race car or one that has the heads pulled fairly often for inspection but not so great for a DD. then again if the engine were just a temporaray one this might be a less expensive option than the link bar lifters
