Need opinions - blown GT or GT500?

[mjscott2]

After getting my '05 Roush Stage I, black on black, with a Kenne Bell intercooled supercharger exactly how I wanted it, a combination of heavy rain, worn tires and bad luck ended with the front right of the car rearranged enough to total it, just barely.

So, looks like I'm in the market for another Mustang (I've looked hard at the other options but nothing provides the performance bang for the buck and eye-catching looks).

I'm probably going to end up with a 1-2 year old car to avoid paying the depreciation. What I'm struggling with is:

1) Build up another GT with a non-stock body kit (i.e. Roush stage I, Steeda or other kit) and install another KB and upgraded suspension. My broken car dynoed at 463 at the wheels - approx 540 at the crank.
2) Go straight for the GT500 - 500 at the crank.

The GT500 would cost ~$5-7k more. I know that the advantage is that it already has a better suspension, and the 5.4L engine is bullet-proof. A KB Mammoth supercharger can push 800+ rwhp with just race fuel and an upgraded drive shaft. What concerns me is that the curb weight of the GT500 is 600 lbs higher than a GT!!

Even with the KB supercharger added, the GT500 would still weigh 450 lbs more than the GT!

Any thoughts? Anybody compared a blown GT (KB, Roush, Saleen or other twin screw s/c) head-to-head with a GT500?

I'd love to hear your experiences and thoughts.

thanks,

Mike.
__________________
05 Roush Stage I, KB Stage I NAROUSH
93 TT RX7
Certified Boost Junkie

 

[NastyStang113]

I'd say GT500 if you can afford it. In the end you'll have much more options with power levels. GT500s have came down in price a lot. I found a bunch the other day for around $38,000 with around 3,000 miles on them.

 

[mjscott2]

Yeah, the GT500 is a beautiful beast, and is very upgradeable without doing much to the drivetrain other than a bigger blower.

But the 20% more weight thing is weighing on me (sorry - bad pun). For significantly less cost, I can modify a GT to perform better than a GT500. For example, my '05 is quicker in acceleration than a GT500 and with a set of coilovers and a Watts link will probably thrash the GT500 on any track. One of the questions is, how effectively can the GT500 put down more power than stock?

My car spins through 1st and 2nd and will spin well into 3rd when power-shifted. I realize that I'm at the upper limits of safe territory on the stock internals and clutch, but it seems to be enough. (Did I really say that? ;-) Would a GT500 pushing 650 or so really be faster?

Decisions, decisions. Life's full of difficult choices! Lemme know what you think. I'm especially interested in anybody who has driven a GT500 and supercharged GT head-to-head, either on a road course or hard on the street.

Oh yeah, on a whim I dropped by the local dealership to check out GT500s and GTs. They have a new 2008 Roush 427R for $47.5k. Without breathing hard they dropped $11k off the price. At least there's one good thing about the recession!

 

[NastyStang113]

The weight is canceled out by the power capabilities, IMO. I've driven in a 700rwhp GT500 and it'll blow the doors off of any other GT that I've rode in or driven in. The GT500's rear end is a little different. The transmission is the Tremec6060 which is a much better transmission. It's got 8 bolt flywheel vs the 6 bolt flywheel in the 'standard' GT. As far as getting the power down to the road that's all up to a set of tires. Throw on a set of MT Streets or Nitto NT555 DRs in a 305 and you'll be good to go !!

 

[bigcat]

is the wrecked car for sale? if so, i am interested

 

[mjscott2]

I should find out what the insurance company wants for it on Monday or Tuesday. I don't think it will take much to make it roadworthy. If so, it might become a track car. ;-)

 

[ufnavy06]

Save the powertrain and buy a V6. Gotta work around insurance

 

[Gearbanger 101]

But the 20% more weight thing is weighing on me (sorry - bad pun). For significantly less cost, I can modify a GT to perform better than a GT500. For example, my '05 is quicker in acceleration than a GT500 and with a set of coilovers and a Watts link will probably thrash the GT500 on any track. One of the questions is, how effectively can the GT500 put down more power than stock?

With filter, tune, pulley and exhaust a GT500 will put out approx 580-590rwhp and almost the same amount of torque. That's about 680hp to the flywheel. So I'd say the potential for making power leans far towards the GT500's favour.

Also, keep in mid with that added weight you're getting a nicer interior, bigger wheels and tires, much better brakes a 6-speed transmission and a DOHC 5.4L with far greater potential than your stock 4.6L 3V.

Its not like for just added a few cement blocks to the car to make it heavier. There's a reason for that additional weight.

Not to mention resalve value if you ever do become tired of the car is going to be much higher. And hey....people are going to notice a GT500 long before any GT with a body kit.

 

[mjscott2]

Made a decision and first impressions

Well, I decided to go GT500. Picked up a pristine '07 - black with titanium LeMans stripes with the red accent interior - fully loaded. Beautiful!

My first impressions:
The ride is definitely more choppy than the GT. Cornering is much more precise and the steering is significantly tighter. The car definitely feels and handles like it's heavier than a GT. Acceleration is impressive - I get strangled by my seatbelt after hard launches. The twin-disc clutch is closer to a racing clutch than the GT stock unit. It has more free play, then actuates over a much shorter distance, and is more grabby (less smooth) compared to the GT. This is expected.

Compared to a Kenne Bell blown GT (463 rwhp):
The GT feels noticeably quicker. The KB twin-screw blower provides significantly more low-end than the GT500's Whipple Roots unit. Whereas the KB GT pulls hard at ~2300 RPM, the GT500 doesn't really push until ~2600-2800 RPM. The GT is looser in cornering and has more trouble getting power to the pavement - especially if the road is rough.

 

[NastyStang113]

So, what are your plans with this car? First mods should be a pulley, intake, and tune from VMP Tuning !!

 

[mjscott2]

Yeah, in a bit!

Yes, you called it. That's definitely the easiest and cheapest HP add.

I just need to mentally get past the 'voiding the warranty' thing.

 

[TheVat]

Good choice with the GT500, I was gonna suggest that over a Gt. I'm curious, when they totaled out your GT, were you able to salvage any of your mods on the car? Was the value based upon KBB/GAP, or did they consider the cost of your mods in the payout?

 

[NastyStang113]

What's this warranty thing you talk about?

 

[TheVat]

I think he's referring to the service dept's rash advice saying if he mildly modify's the powertrain he's automatically voided the factory 3/36K or 5/60 warr. I used to work at a Ford dealership and that's what we were told to tell owners of pullied Term and modded GT's with aftermarket chips. I think very few dealerships are aware that the warranty is only void if the modification is a direct cause of a particular failure. We were actually advised to tell them if we did work on it, we would inform FORD hotline of the vehicle modifications for thier future reference. There is usually a set dollar amount that FORD will send reps out to approve of repairs totalling around $2000.00. I didn't and don't approve of many of the practices of service depts and that's why I got out of that business.

 

[klaw]

This is a tough one for me. I went the GT route because I knew that I would want to do extensive modifications and wasn't sure I would have had the heart to do them to a Shelby as there's so much invested in the name etc. In the end, I'll have way more money into my GT than a GT-500 but much more performance too. I could have started with a GT-500 and ended up at the same endpoint. It all comes down to whether or not you want the car to be truly your design or you want to drive around in a car with someone else's name across the back - be that Roush, Shelby, or Saleen. I prefer enjoying the journey of building the car and agonizing over the design tradeoffs along the way. Some people prefer to walk into a showroom and drive away with the end result. Each to their own.

 

[mjscott2]

Yeah, there's a lot of misinformation at dealerships - I'd take an aftermarket mechanic who I trust over a dealership any day, but we typically don't have that choice for warranty work.

A pully and tensioner swap, CAI and tune can yield 100+ HP quite safely if done properly on the GT500, but odds are that if anything in the drivetrain breaks prematurely, Ford will try to dodge the warranty responsibility. Just take a look at the SuperSnake mods - above 605 HP (if memory serves) you lose the warranty.

I didn't buy the car for the Shelby sticker, but rather the platform. My GT pushes 540 at the flywheel, and to bump it higher and remain reliable would require rebuilt internals and a better clutch. Then, incrementally the rest of the drivetrain would also need upgrades. The GT500 drivetrain can handle ~800 RWHP with only replacing the drive shaft - not that I'm going there yet!

My GT is faster than the GT500 (no surprise - +40HP and -400lb), but I can build more on the GT500, and it's definitely set up more aggressively. I understand the desire to customize a vehicle - I have a '93 RX7 twin turbo that's highly customized. The one issue with that is resale - if you're very lucky, you'll find somebody who shares the same taste you have, but most likely you'll be selling those expensive mods at a significant loss.

As for the valuation on the GT (Roush stage I - just a body kit and exhaust) - I bought it ~22 months before the accident. I installed a Kenne Bell intercooled S/C kit. AAA offered me a settlement for the value of a stock GT initially. I pushed back and asked for a third party appraisal, and also got my own. AAA came back today offering $10,500 more than their initial offer. Over all, it cost me $2,000 to drive the car for almost 2 years, including depreciation. Not bad!!! Especially considering that most car dealers are desperate to sell nowadays.

I'm waiting to hear back from AAA on the buyback price. We'll see ...

 

[mjscott2]

I couldn't believe my luck. The insurance company wanted <$3k for the car. 2005 Roush stage I w/ $3k of additional Roush goodies and a KB intercooled supercharger with <2k miles on it. I figure that it's going to cost me ~$10k to get the car back to original condition. No V6 donor body required! ;-)

I've bolted on all the new mechanicals, and in the process upgraded to GT500 front suspension (lower control arms & struts). The car drives perfect! It's back from the frame shop, and all the body panels line up nicely.

Next is to weld in some sheet metal. The new Roush plastics are primed and half-sanded in the garage. Another couple of weeks and the paint should be done.

So far, so good!

 

[Poco]

I got a pre-approval from Ford Credit for a new Stang. I'm after a n 08'-09' GT 500 only if I can secure a good trade in price. I was already told about auction prices but that had nothing to do with blue book prices. The dealers don't even talk blue book any longer.

 

[21MsclCr]

Blown GT!!! Gt500 is a complete waste of money. FOr that amount go buy a corvette. GT500 weighs too much, doesnt put out enough power, etc. The only difference is the rear end and transmission and for less money you can throw a supercharger, bore the engine, 6 speed tranny and rear end that will be able to put up with the power. But put it this way, a KB s/c alone will put out more than the gt500. IDK the only reason I woujld ever get a GT500 is to say hey look what I have when Im rich, it wouldnt be something to race and if you plan on blowing a GT I assume you plan to somewhat. I would say get a Shelby GT. It the best bang for your buck. And if you have the money for a GT500 get the Shelby GT S/C if you can find it. In the end its all up to you but I think Ford was stupid trying to charge that much for something that isnt worth it.

 

[Stangninjak]

Hmmm I know you have already done your thing, But in truth, I would have waited for a "10 GT".

With a track pack it OUTPERFORMS a stock 08~09 GT500 in handling. You could have added you KB to it easily. The engine is basically a bullit so that should have not been a issue.

True you can get higher HP on a GT500 because of the 5.4, but in reality what are you doing with the car ? Is it a DD ? Is it a street car ? Is it a track car ? I make about 445~450 on my GT. Its not much that can screw with me on the street. On the track I have my way unless I run into OTHER modified cars. I upgraded my suspension, and it handles very well. When I drove a used 07 GT500 vert, I was not impressed that much with it. I truly felt my car pulled harder, and handled better.

I use my car to drive to work and it see's a little track time. As far as looks, I have been next to gt500's and everyone asks if my car is a special modified GT500...I say lol no..its just a GT, and most go wow. You car is very nice ! In truth, I have yet to see another GT like mines in S. FLA. and truly not in the MIA yet.

So in the end its up to what you want to do. As for me, I wanted to be unique and not like everyone else GT. You can always buy power IMO. Even the head guy at my dealer(son's owner) told me privately that if I would ever trade my car in it would be gone in a second. He said HE would buy it simply because he knows nobody else has one like it in Miami...at least so far.