New Brakes PBR 99-04 , Almost there!!

[mr_woodster]

Well, finally got the bug and decided to put the shoulder to the wheel on my 66'. Its been sitting for awhile, awaiting a front end rebuild, as the brakes (original drum brakes) were pretty bad, and the bushings along with everything else....it was just unsafe to drive!

So, a few hundred bucks at the local mustang shop, i've got one side rebuilt to stock with new ball joints/bushings/bearings.

I decided to fab/gather the necessary items to swap on these PBR twin piston calipers i picked up from the junk yard for cheap. The plan was to put them On to some Granada spindles i also sourced at the junkyard (what can i say im cheap!!)

So, a little prep work and paint, and it looks like i spent a bundle! if i had to round out the price chart, it went something like..

Calipers/brakets 60$ (for both)
Spindles (which came with the old calipers) 60$

New spindle bearings...something like 20$

Paint 10$

New cross drilled/slotted anodized rotors...i think i paid 125ish awhile ago for those

New brake lines 85$
New pads 25$

---------raw materials for swapping calipers onto spindles
10$ for the angle iron
15 $ in random grade 8 bolts and washers/nuts
a few bucks in drill bits...

So, for about 400$ i have a nice brake system system
For the other 300$ or so for the front end rebuild
700$ total (doing the work myself), i came in quite abit ahead of some of the
"bolt on" setups you can purchase out right. And i can say "Hey man, i made that!"

anyways heres a couple of pictures, take part in my moment of glory, haha

 

[gunnerdog]

Do you have anymore pics. I have been waiting to do this? I got the calipers sitting in my garage.

 

[mr_woodster]

I can snap a couple more in a day or so. Anything in perticular you want to see? This takes basic fabricating, Infact, it took longer to locate the materials (bolts and such) than it did to make the brackets.

I would highly recomend having access to a drill press though.
I drilled mine with a hand drill .....1/4 metal is not fun to drill through... a number of burnt bits told me so!

 

[latamud]

Nice work. I was wondering what the bracket looked like. I've seen the dimensions drawing someone posted a while ago. I am working on a 13" setup on Granada rotors following this mod. I'm just taking it a step further with a little more cutting and grinding.

 

[gunnerdog]

What rotors are those and where did you find them?

 

[mr_woodster]

These are drilled/slotted rotors for a Granada i bought them years ago from a company called Rotorpros . If you do an ebay search under "rotorpros" and scroll through their selection, you will find them.

Kind of lucky i was able to relay that info to you. I searched through the unmarked boxes they came in and it turned up a business card they tossed in!

I had bought them so long ago i forgot who i purchased them through!

Either way, i highly recommend them, very quality pieces for the price.

 

[gunnerdog]

Ok are those the brake lines for the 99-04 or are those brake lines for your 66? It the last piece I need. What brake pads did you go with? I was looking at the Hawk.

 

[shelby69]

looks good. keep us updated

 

[mr_woodster]

Ok are those the brake lines for the 99-04 or are those brake lines for your 66? It the last piece I need. What brake pads did you go with? I was looking at the Hawk.

I purchased the brake lines for the 99-04 mustang braided steel etc. As far as routing and what not its not all set, but i think it will work just fine.

As far as i can tell, the passenger side -hard line stock fitting is the same and screws right into the 99-04 brake line. The driver side i had to flare a larger fitting on. Sorry i dont know brake fitting "sizes"...but hopefully this helps.

As far as brake pads, i used some cheap set from autozoo, to get it rigged up. Nothing special.

 

[latamud]

I chimed in on here a few months ago, said I was working on fitting 13" rotors to Granada spindles.

First off let me say, if you have the means to do this yourself then go for it otherwise it isn't worth it to pay someone to do the machine work. I did some bartering with a local guy who turned out to be a machinist and cut me a great deal. For the going hourly rate for this job he told me he would have charged me $700. I loaned him my Eastwood fender lip roller.

Originally I though I could use the hub the same way the MustangSteve kit works:
Link

The Granada rotor has a longer body that the vintage hubs so running the 13 rotor over the outside of the Granada hub would have required very long bolts or the caliper mount. This would have put dangerous force on the ends of these two bolts during braking. I even thought about using components of a Wilwood Mustang II/Pinto big brake kit that use a hub that would fit on a Granada spindle. That was way too expensive and not as fun as doing it myself.

Started with new Granada rotors, I wanted to make sure I was getting a pair of fairly equal thickness hubs coming from the same factory.

Marked for cutting

After cut

Raw hub

Hub Machined; center cut down and flange smoothed and leveled

Center bore of 13" rotor also machined to slip over the inner wheel bearing shaft

Slip fit; putting my absentee ballot to good use, didn't want to scratch the linoleum in the kitchen while the wife was away.

1.5" spacer

Here's how I bolted the spacer on, I started with a 1.5" adapter with press in studs. I pressed the studs out and am using longer Grade 8 studs, Torque the spacer to the hub/rotor using the recessed holes and the stud extends beyond the spacer allowing for the wheel to bolt to it.

Test fit 17x9

1" flare needed

Mock up of the brakes, the image is slanted, didn't level the camera

 

[bnickel]

I chimed in on here a few months ago, said I was working on fitting 13" rotors to Granada spindles.

First off let me say, if you have the means to do this yourself then go for it otherwise it isn't worth it to pay someone to do the machine work. I did some bartering with a local guy who turned out to be a machinist and cut me a great deal. For the going hourly rate for this job he told me he would have charged me $700. I loaned him my Eastwood fender lip roller.

Originally I though I could use the hub the same way the MustangSteve kit works:
Link

The Granada rotor has a longer body that the vintage hubs so running the 13 rotor over the outside of the Granada hub would have required very long bolts or the caliper mount. This would have put dangerous force on the ends of these two bolts during braking. I even thought about using components of a Wilwood Mustang II/Pinto big brake kit that use a hub that would fit on a Granada spindle. That was way too expensive and not as fun as doing it myself.

Started with new Granada rotors, I wanted to make sure I was getting a pair of fairly equal thickness hubs coming from the same factory.

Marked for cutting

After cut

Raw hub

Hub Machined; center cut down and flange smoothed and leveled

Center bore of 13" rotor also machined to slip over the inner wheel bearing shaft

Slip fit; putting my absentee ballot to good use, didn't want to scratch the linoleum in the kitchen while the wife was away.

1.5" spacer

Here's how I bolted the spacer on, I started with a 1.5" adapter with press in studs. I pressed the studs out and am using longer Grade 8 studs, Torque the spacer to the hub/rotor using the recessed holes and the stud extends beyond the spacer allowing for the wheel to bolt to it.

Test fit 17x9

1" flare needed

Mock up of the brakes, the image is slanted, didn't level the camera

you know it might have been easier to start out with 68-69 disc brake hubs instead of modifying the granada rotors like that and it would have accomplished pretty much the same thing.

unlike the drum brake hubs that mount on the backside of the drum, the 68-69 disc brake hubs actually mount on the front side of the rotor. you would have to change the bearings and races out for the 70-up/granada bearings but that's super easy to do. i'm sure it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper as well

 

[latamud]

you know it might have been easier to start out with 68-69 disc brake hubs instead of modifying the granada rotors like that and it would have accomplished pretty much the same thing.

unlike the drum brake hubs that mount on the backside of the drum, the 68-69 disc brake hubs actually mount on the front side of the rotor. you would have to change the bearings and races out for the 70-up/granada bearings but that's super easy to do. i'm sure it would have been a hell of a lot cheaper as well

Could you send me some dimensions of a 68/69 disc brake hub? I need the thickness of the mounting flange, and the depth of the inner flange in relation to the inner wheel bearing shaft. Also, the outer diameter of the inner wheel bearing shaft. I disagree with your idea and my theory is that the Cobra rotor mounted on the 69 disc hub would never allow the inner bearing to seat on the base of the Granada spindle. I had searched for these hubs before settling on the Granada hubs. I have a prepared response for you but it really depends on the 69 hub dimensions. Without them my statement has nothing to stand on. And with them I might actually be able to confirm yours.
All parts vendors I've searched, including CSRP, only offer a 1 piece integral rotor/hub for 68/69 rotors.

 

[bnickel]

Could you send me some dimensions of a 68/69 disc brake hub? I need the thickness of the mounting flange, and the depth of the inner flange in relation to the inner wheel bearing shaft. Also, the outer diameter of the inner wheel bearing shaft. I disagree with your idea and my theory is that the Cobra rotor mounted on the 69 disc hub would never allow the inner bearing to seat on the base of the Granada spindle. I had searched for these hubs before settling on the Granada hubs. I have a prepared response for you but it really depends on the 69 hub dimensions. Without them my statement has nothing to stand on. And with them I might actually be able to confirm yours.
All parts vendors I've searched, including CSRP, only offer a 1 piece integral rotor/hub for 68/69 rotors.

i don't have any dimensions right now and the hubs i have are buried under a ton of crap right now but i can tell you that i'm running 70 mustang one-piece rotors on my car right now and all i had to do was change the wheel bearings and races. i used the 70 rotors because they were a bunch cheaper than the 69 rotors. 70 rotors are also wider than 69 rotors in the friction surface area, 70's are right at one inch wide and the 69 rotors are .8-something wide. the granada spindle pin is basically identical to the 70-up mustang spindle pin.

most aftermarket 69/70 rotors are now a one piece rotor but you can still find original ones that are 2 piece and there are a few places that still make new 2 piece rotors, though for what you are doing new ones probably wouldn't be very feasible because they cost about $100 each, you can find used ones for a whole let less especially if you don't need them to have good friction surface areas since you'd only be using the hubs anyway. original 70 rotors are 2 piece as well, same design as the 69 rotor just with the bigger bearing and wider friction surfaces.

as a matter of fact i didn't even realize it until i installed the new rotors but i had been running one 69 and one 70 rotor on my car since the first brake job i had done on it when i was 15 (24 years ago) but both spindles are still the original 69 pieces that the car came with.

 

[latamud]

i don't have any dimensions right now and the hubs i have are buried under a ton of crap right now but i can tell you that i'm running 70 mustang one-piece rotors on my car right now and all i had to do was change the wheel bearings and races. i used the 70 rotors because they were a bunch cheaper than the 69 rotors. 70 rotors are also wider than 69 rotors in the friction surface area, 70's are right at one inch wide and the 69 rotors are .8-something wide. the granada spindle pin is basically identical to the 70-up mustang spindle pin.

most aftermarket 69/70 rotors are now a one piece rotor but you can still find original ones that are 2 piece and there are a few places that still make new 2 piece rotors, though for what you are doing new ones probably wouldn't be very feasible because they cost about $100 each, you can find used ones for a whole let less especially if you don't need them to have good friction surface areas since you'd only be using the hubs anyway. original 70 rotors are 2 piece as well, same design as the 69 rotor just with the bigger bearing and wider friction surfaces.

as a matter of fact i didn't even realize it until i installed the new rotors but i had been running one 69 and one 70 rotor on my car since the first brake job i had done on it when i was 15 (24 years ago) but both spindles are still the original 69 pieces that the car came with.

I remember reading your post a while back on the 69 and 70 rotors on your car, how the only difference was the races. That was why I originally thought to try and find them.

http://forums.stangnet.com/772528-sn95-caliper-granada-spindle-bracket.html

the 70 rotor will also work on the 68-69 spindle as well by changing the bearings and races. i recently discovered that i've had on 69 and one 70 rotor on my 69 stang since i had new rotors installed on it back in high school. i guess they had a hard time finding 2 69 rotors so they just swapped the bearings and races on the 70 rotor and used it instead. strange but true, i have no idea how i never noticed this in almost 25 years of ownership until now........

I knew the Granada, Mustang II, Pinto rotors were interchangeable. Ultimately I don't suspect anyone or many will attempt to try this mod. Although I know I'm stirring the pot bringing more ideas to surface. Shaun from Street or Track chimed in on VMF and he's developing a Granada spindle---68/69 drum hub---13" hat style mod. The 13" he uses is deeper to overlap the drum hub without spacers like the current drum hub kit. Not quite sure what 13" rotor he's using. I hate to ask because he's probably going to start marketing it soon.
I think if someone really had the time to track down a 13" rotor that fit "hat" style over a Granada hub they'd be onto something. Cutting the old friction surface is easy. If we had a hat style rotor deep enough the hub wouldn't need machining. I had browsed the parking lot at work for what might work for this. I think something like the rear rotor from a Chevy Z71 Silverado fit the depth but the bolt pattern and center bore were an issue. Maybe a Lincoln Town car rear rotor, but then they don't come in 13". I had asked Dennis if he might be willing to cast a Granada rotor to spec except make it a wider diameter, 13". He's catering to the masses, selling volume. It's not worth while for him to make a product that only a few people are going to be interested in, and can afford. I don't blame him, in this market I doubt too many people are really interested in this mod at all. I just get bored of seeing the same stuff on everyone's car. I'm a SSgt in the Air Force, if I can do this stuff anyone can.

 

[69gmachine]

It's great to see the ingenuity of so many different people, but you can't count on getting lucky and working a deal with a machine shop. Pretty much all of my luck is bad.

I think at some point people should consider a two piece rotor and hub design. You can use a light weight aluminum hub from Wilwood and then use whatever rotor you want and design the rest around it. Having a rotor that's replaceable without removing the hub is nice, and it costs about the same as a heavy one piece cast rotor/hub combo. I used the rotors that came in the kit on the rear since they were only 0.81 thick.

 

[latamud]

It's great to see the ingenuity of so many different people, but you can't count on getting lucky and working a deal with a machine shop. Pretty much all of my luck is bad.

I think at some point people should consider a two piece rotor and hub design. You can use a light weight aluminum hub from Wilwood and then use whatever rotor you want and design the rest around it. Having a rotor that's replaceable without removing the hub is nice, and it costs about the same as a heavy one piece cast rotor/hub combo. I used the rotors that came in the kit on the rear since they were only 0.81 thick.

I even thought about using components of a Wilwood Mustang II/Pinto big brake kit that use a hub that would fit on a Granada spindle. That was way too expensive and not as fun as doing it myself.

I agree.

 

[gunnerdog]

Mr_Woodster how are the front brakes holding up? Any issues? Modifications or anything you would change?