thinking about a supercharger
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SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
Put a Whipple High output on it at 10PSI and blow it up.
Put a Roush 445 on it and make 360-400 RWHP.
Put a Kenne Bell or Roush TVS or whipple with an appropriate pulley on it and you can make 400-450 -600+ RWHP, enjoy it, and have room to grow.
Do your homework, find a good tuner, and do it up.
What would I do?
I have a Roush 445 (got a great deal).
Doing it all over again I would go with either a Roush TVS2300 or a whipple...put a big pulley on the S/C (or a smaller pulley on the crank) to control the boost and make 450-460 RWHP since your internals are not forged.
Search for NastyStang's setup...that is how I would do it.
Put a Roush 445 on it and make 360-400 RWHP.
Put a Kenne Bell or Roush TVS or whipple with an appropriate pulley on it and you can make 400-450 -600+ RWHP, enjoy it, and have room to grow.
Do your homework, find a good tuner, and do it up.
What would I do?
I have a Roush 445 (got a great deal).
Doing it all over again I would go with either a Roush TVS2300 or a whipple...put a big pulley on the S/C (or a smaller pulley on the crank) to control the boost and make 450-460 RWHP since your internals are not forged.
Search for NastyStang's setup...that is how I would do it.
RMB427R
New Member
Put a Whipple High output on it at 10PSI and blow it up.
Put a Roush 445 on it and make 360-400 RWHP.
Put a Kenne Bell or Roush TVS or whipple with an appropriate pulley on it and you can make 400-450 -600+ RWHP, enjoy it, and have room to grow.
Do your homework, find a good tuner, and do it up.
What would I do?
I have a Roush 445 (got a great deal).
Doing it all over again I would go with either a Roush TVS2300 or a whipple...put a big pulley on the S/C (or a smaller pulley on the crank) to control the boost and make 450-460 RWHP since your internals are not forged.
Search for NastyStang's setup...that is how I would do it.
Shane knows what he's talking about.. I would take his advice..
Procharger is one of the quality products. I'd just be real careful about how much boost you go with since you aren't upgrading your internals. I'd upgrade the internals first if it were me.
I've heard plenty of horror stories blaming Ford because they thought the stock internals should have held up. Every engine configuration and it's rated HP/Torque at the flywheel Ford puts out is designed around the internals. You can get a complete stage 3 kit, gain about 100HP depending on the cams, compression ratio, etc..you choose, then if you decide you still want a super charger you won't have to worry about the internals and go with what ever boost your heart desires. Normally larger pulleys aren't used in SC applications, just n/a applicaitons. Just get the right boost to begin with.
My .02 worth
What would I do?
I have a Roush 445 (got a great deal).
Doing it all over again I would go with either a Roush TVS2300 or a whipple...put a big pulley on the S/C (or a smaller pulley on the crank) to control the boost and make 450-460 RWHP since your internals are not forged.
Search for NastyStang's setup...that is how I would do it.
Any reason why you would go with the roush over the saleen at 5-6 lbs?
Dan
Stangninjak
Member
- Apr 16, 2004
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Well your Borla is OK. You will probably end up selling the CIA as most S/C's kit come with their own.
As far as which kit, it depends on what YOU want to do with the car, where YOU want power to build at, and how far YOU will take the power.
Quickly it breaks down like this:
Twin Screw= Power(tq) down low, flattens out up top. Good blower, replaces your current stock or otherwise intake.
Centri= Power up top, lower tq numbers down low. You keep your current intake, or you can up grade it.
TVS=a more efficient roots style, see Twin screw for power style, with TVS making great power so far. (Nastystang car has this.)
For me, I have a Saleen Supershaker. I had a shaker hood already, and I wanted a twin screw. So I went with it. I make about 430 RWHP, because I wanted to stay under 450. I make 420 tq, and my car is a blast to drive. Nice safe setup.
Nice safe setup is somewhat subjective.
If your engine is stock from the factory, you're throwing a big question mark into this. Ford rolls off an awful lot of 3v engines every year, and while I'm not trying to put down their fantastic build quality, the engine was meant to handle 300hp, and they do a damn job of getting out all of our cars to that off the showroom floor. More or less, most of the products inside the motor are the cheapest ones around, compared to the aftermarket, as Ford is building on a tight budget (which is one of the reasons why they're nowhere near as bad as Chrysler and GM). That's not to say you won't blow the motor up at 320hp or 350hp, because the parts have some room for increased power, but how high that goes is anybody's guess, and ultimately you're voiding your warranty. No matter how safe your timing, air fuel, boost level, fuel pressure, air inlet temps, ... etc are, you're leaving it all to fate.
Now I'm not saying that to scare you, but there are a bunch of things that could happen, some of them are within your control, some of them are not.
With that said, there are a lot of supercharger choices available to you, and the best depends on what you'd like to get out of the car, and what you'd like to do with your car.
The positive displacement (roots/twin-screw/tvs) blowers are fantastic cars off the line, with your boost only a mash of the gas away. If you're more of a street racer, you may be happier with this setup. They make great numbers, and acceleration is greatly improved, and if you love the sound of the 03/04 Cobras or 07+ Shelby GT500s, this will have that same screeching with almost no sound to give you away to your potential kills. The torque and power peaks earlier in the rpm band, and are right there when you shift into the next gear.
The centrifugal superchargers are also a great blower, which are (arguably) are better suited for drag racing. For the most part, boost for boost/pound for pound, these make bigger numbers, and their power is felt later on in the power band as the boost level is a function of the engine speed... the longer you stay on it, the more power it makes. If you're finding yourself standing on the pedal for highway top speed runs or 1/4 mile runs, this might be your guy since you're spending quite a lot of time at the upper rpms.
Pricewise, they're both similar (however centri blowers are usually a little cheaper), and the modifications they both need are also similar, so it's really down to what works for your budget. If you're on a real budget, it's hard to go wrong with the centrifugal blowers, with some people offering them for less than $2800 *cough* us *cough*
There's also really no wrong answer, as whichever path you choose, you'll gain a lot of power.
If your engine is stock from the factory, you're throwing a big question mark into this. Ford rolls off an awful lot of 3v engines every year, and while I'm not trying to put down their fantastic build quality, the engine was meant to handle 300hp, and they do a damn job of getting out all of our cars to that off the showroom floor. More or less, most of the products inside the motor are the cheapest ones around, compared to the aftermarket, as Ford is building on a tight budget (which is one of the reasons why they're nowhere near as bad as Chrysler and GM). That's not to say you won't blow the motor up at 320hp or 350hp, because the parts have some room for increased power, but how high that goes is anybody's guess, and ultimately you're voiding your warranty. No matter how safe your timing, air fuel, boost level, fuel pressure, air inlet temps, ... etc are, you're leaving it all to fate.
Now I'm not saying that to scare you, but there are a bunch of things that could happen, some of them are within your control, some of them are not.
With that said, there are a lot of supercharger choices available to you, and the best depends on what you'd like to get out of the car, and what you'd like to do with your car.
The positive displacement (roots/twin-screw/tvs) blowers are fantastic cars off the line, with your boost only a mash of the gas away. If you're more of a street racer, you may be happier with this setup. They make great numbers, and acceleration is greatly improved, and if you love the sound of the 03/04 Cobras or 07+ Shelby GT500s, this will have that same screeching with almost no sound to give you away to your potential kills. The torque and power peaks earlier in the rpm band, and are right there when you shift into the next gear.
The centrifugal superchargers are also a great blower, which are (arguably) are better suited for drag racing. For the most part, boost for boost/pound for pound, these make bigger numbers, and their power is felt later on in the power band as the boost level is a function of the engine speed... the longer you stay on it, the more power it makes. If you're finding yourself standing on the pedal for highway top speed runs or 1/4 mile runs, this might be your guy since you're spending quite a lot of time at the upper rpms.
Pricewise, they're both similar (however centri blowers are usually a little cheaper), and the modifications they both need are also similar, so it's really down to what works for your budget. If you're on a real budget, it's hard to go wrong with the centrifugal blowers, with some people offering them for less than $2800 *cough* us *cough*
There's also really no wrong answer, as whichever path you choose, you'll gain a lot of power.go with turbo!!! i have procharger setup and am completely dissappointed...they dont tell u that their 11 sec. bolt-on at 10psi system has 4.56 gears---slicks---headers---one piece aluminum driveshaft---and so on and so fourth----so it can be an 11 sec bolt on with about $3000 more in other upgrades
Ok, big question: What would you do with a stock engine to beef it up, to handle max power from a whipple or KB? Then what happens with the rear end? All of these questions are keeping me from putting a blower on my car. I don't want to blow the engine and then wish I'd put 3K into it BEFORE I put the blower on it.
What do you think? I'm ready to pull the engine myself and have it shipped off for improvement, then put the blower on...my car does sit around in the winter, I'd have the time.
Doc
What do you think? I'm ready to pull the engine myself and have it shipped off for improvement, then put the blower on...my car does sit around in the winter, I'd have the time.
Doc
bradleyem
Member
First of all, how crazy do you want to get? What are you planning on doing with the car? As long as the car is TUNED PROPERLY, these engines can handle nearly 500HP (425-450 being pretty safe). Detonation caused by poor tuning or insufficent fuel can kill an engine pretty quickly though. The newer TVS superchargers are much more efficent and have better cooling, resulting in lower intake air temperatures, and safer boost. Point being, that unless you want to get really extreme, don't be scared of using any of the proven, well engineered, kits that are available. Boost can be easily changed by pullies and a tune.
But, to answer the question, A rebuild kit using forged internals (make it a 5.0 while you're at it), ARP hardware and a stud girdle would be a good start. To make the really big numbers, balance is the key. Blueprinted & balanced bottom end, and a beefed up valvetrain to push the rev limit.
The rear ends are pretty strong. The only real improvement would be chromoly axle shafts. Good drivetrain investments would be a stage 2+ or stage 3 clutch and a one piece aluminum driveshaft.
There are also several companies that offer drop in, turnkey solutions with a built engine and supercharger as a complete package. If you have around $12K to spend
Steel Horse
Member
First of all, how crazy do you want to get? What are you planning on doing with the car? As long as the car is TUNED PROPERLY, these engines can handle nearly 500HP (425-450 being pretty safe). Detonation caused by poor tuning or insufficent fuel can kill an engine pretty quickly though. The newer TVS superchargers are much more efficent and have better cooling, resulting in lower intake air temperatures, and safer boost. Point being, that unless you want to get really extreme, don't be scared of using any of the proven, well engineered, kits that are available. Boost can be easily changed by pullies and a tune.
But, to answer the question, A rebuild kit using forged internals (make it a 5.0 while you're at it), ARP hardware and a stud girdle would be a good start. To make the really big numbers, balance is the key. Blueprinted & balanced bottom end, and a beefed up valvetrain to push the rev limit.
The rear ends are pretty strong. The only real improvement would be chromoly axle shafts. Good drivetrain investments would be a stage 2+ or stage 3 clutch and a one piece aluminum driveshaft.
There are also several companies that offer drop in, turnkey solutions with a built engine and supercharger as a complete package. If you have around $12K to spend
Also don't forget that if you are throwing some insane power down and have beefed up the clutch, drive shaft, and rearend the trans is now the weak link. May as well do a six speed swap while your at it.
cycosarge
New Member
You are totally right about the trans. I have a SPEC Stage 3+ clutch and flywheel, 4 inch aluminum one piece driveshaft and a built rear-end. My trans lasted one day behind the Kenne Bell. I had it rebuilt by a guy I saw on eBay for $2000. EXTREME 3650 is what I got.
Saleen makes nice blowers, no doubt about that.
The reason I suggested Roush TVS, Whipple, and Kenne Bell is future upgrade ability.
If you are wired like I am...whatever power you make is never enough...so if you go with the three I mentioned you can later forge your internals (crank, connecting rods, and pistons) and maybe do a 302 bore / stroke while you are at it, and then turn the boost up on your supercharger via pulley swaps and make 500-600 RWHP.
The problem with a blower like I have ( Roushcharger - eaton M90) is that it is maxxed out and you are stuck around the 400 RWHP range.
The Saleen might net you low 400's and up to 450 or so with full long-tube exhaust, but I am talking about bang for buck blower only...so again I say go with Roush TVS, Whipple, or KB.
If you are only interested in drag racing you might also like a centrifugal (Paxton, Vortech) which makes great power for less money but they do have to spool up a bit compared to a roots or screw type blower.
Steel Horse
Member
What exactly does he do to make it EXTREME?
Reminds me of Harold and Kumar go to White Castle.
cycosarge
New Member
That's just what they call it. Hardened input shaft, stronger internals. He warranteed it to 1000 HP, so I am going to say THAT is what makes it extreme.
The TVS and the Saleen blowers are both 2.3L, IIRC. The saleen should be at least as efficient, or more, being a TS design. With a pulley change on the Saleen you can make ~7, 9, 11, or more PSI, at 11 you'd push 500 RWHP with the right supporting mods, more with all of the bolt-ons. The most I've ever heard of is from JDMs saleen powered cars, they have pushed 700 RWHP with them.
I'm more of a corner-carver, so power isn't the most important thing to me, though like you I always want more... But I think all I would really want is in the 400-450 RWHP range, and the most complete kit I can find in that power range with the best price is really the Magnacharger, which I think is a 1.8 liter hybrid roots blower (similar to, but smaller than the TVS).
Dan
I'm more of a corner-carver, so power isn't the most important thing to me, though like you I always want more... But I think all I would really want is in the 400-450 RWHP range, and the most complete kit I can find in that power range with the best price is really the Magnacharger, which I think is a 1.8 liter hybrid roots blower (similar to, but smaller than the TVS).
Dan
I thought I would be happy with the high 300's / low 400's as well...but now I am used to it and I WANT MORE!
So I know if I go to 450-460, I will get used to that as well and want more.
I have a superbike that lays down high 160's to the rear wheel, and I know what it was like every step of the way in modding to get it to that level. So far it is the same way with teh car...more more more.
I love wrenching and do my own work, so eventually my motor will be bored, stroked, forged, HPC coated, cammed, and blown with either the Roush TVS or a Whipple. That Techco has my interest as well but $7.5 is stiff.
I'll cam it as well eventually and hit it with some ARH longtubes.
I have to be honest and admit I didn't know the Saleens were capable of that much boost. I have read the heat exchanger is somewhat their limiting design compared to the newer designs which have a huge exchanger in the intake manifold. Have you guys seen the guts of a Techco?? WOW!
I just read tonight elsewhere that Edelbrock may have gotten their supercharger sorted...Tillman is talking about a spark plug issue but there are no details as of yet.
I still wouldn't go Edelbrock until it is proven over and over on multiple cars.
There are so many great choices out there. You can alwyas look for a deal, too, if you are not going new. My M90 was an Ebay deal and it was a smokin' great deal...that is the only reason I have that unit...but like I said, I want more and the little whining beast is maxxed out with a 2.57 pulley and a CAI.
My personal reason for favoring the Roush TVS is also because since I have the M90, the TVS is an easy bolt-on, and also my car is a Roush so it "keeps it in the family", you now? I almost bought a Saleen blower for it, but I was advised what a fail that would be having a Saleen blower on a Roush car. Don't tell anyone about my brakes:
CaliSpecial
New Member
Nice safe setup is somewhat subjective.
If your engine is stock from the factory, you're throwing a big question mark into this. Ford rolls off an awful lot of 3v engines every year, and while I'm not trying to put down their fantastic build quality, the engine was meant to handle 300hp, and they do a damn job of getting out all of our cars to that off the showroom floor. More or less, most of the products inside the motor are the cheapest ones around, compared to the aftermarket, as Ford is building on a tight budget (which is one of the reasons why they're nowhere near as bad as Chrysler and GM). That's not to say you won't blow the motor up at 320hp or 350hp, because the parts have some room for increased power, but how high that goes is anybody's guess, and ultimately you're voiding your warranty. No matter how safe your timing, air fuel, boost level, fuel pressure, air inlet temps, ... etc are, you're leaving it all to fate.
Now I'm not saying that to scare you, but there are a bunch of things that could happen, some of them are within your control, some of them are not.
With that said, there are a lot of supercharger choices available to you, and the best depends on what you'd like to get out of the car, and what you'd like to do with your car.
The positive displacement (roots/twin-screw/tvs) blowers are fantastic cars off the line, with your boost only a mash of the gas away. If you're more of a street racer, you may be happier with this setup. They make great numbers, and acceleration is greatly improved, and if you love the sound of the 03/04 Cobras or 07+ Shelby GT500s, this will have that same screeching with almost no sound to give you away to your potential kills. The torque and power peaks earlier in the rpm band, and are right there when you shift into the next gear.
The centrifugal superchargers are also a great blower, which are (arguably) are better suited for drag racing. For the most part, boost for boost/pound for pound, these make bigger numbers, and their power is felt later on in the power band as the boost level is a function of the engine speed... the longer you stay on it, the more power it makes. If you're finding yourself standing on the pedal for highway top speed runs or 1/4 mile runs, this might be your guy since you're spending quite a lot of time at the upper rpms.
Pricewise, they're both similar (however centri blowers are usually a little cheaper), and the modifications they both need are also similar, so it's really down to what works for your budget. If you're on a real budget, it's hard to go wrong with the centrifugal blowers, with some people offering them for less than $2800 *cough* us *cough*
Actualy, this is not true. If you go with the Roushcharger (M90) that DiMora has, and have it fitted by an authorised Roush agent, you do not void your Ford factory warranty. This kit will produce 445 crank HP out of the box, which I know is not as huge as some kits out there, but it ain't too shabby either! If you want to get blown but keep it 'safe', you could do a lot worse! JMO...
Andy
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