I figured out what I hate about my car..

[Pokageek]

Here I am closing in on a "number" close to 500rwhp.. The car sounds like a rocket and is fast but you know what? I HATE DRIVING IT!!

What good is a car that you cant stand driving, just to be able to brag about rwhp? So I've decided to get a different cam to tone it down. I hate rattling at lights like a bucket of bolts and DidddititiitBoouudditiitit shaking like crazy and bucking. While I am considering options, does anyone think I can at least stay over 400rwhp with a mild cam? That will be about 500 HP total. Should I do anything else? Like go with something better than 3.55's to make up for the slight loss I will feel? Thanks.

At one point I even thought of parting it out and getting rid of my other car and just going with one car for less aggravation..or dumbing down the car enough to drive it every day and just have 2 cars instead of 3. And going with like an 07' stang or something. Again any ideas and opinions are appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[1slow95]

I know EXACTLY what you mean. I've been thinking about selling my car or engine for the last year or two. If I can't get it calmed down and running right with the AEM, then I probably will sell it. So far I've got the idle just about perfect, and I can creep along at 1200 rpm's with almost no bucking. Everything else sucks tho. I just got smoked by a H/C/I 306.

Anyways, yes I think with a mild cam you should be able to make a little over 400rwhp. I always hear that 1rwhp per CI is about the most you want for a docile street car. I'm sure Ed Curtis at FTI could make that happen.

 

[DDSTANG94]

Dart block, forged internals and BOOST and lots of it, the only replacement for displacement is boost, u can make all that power, if not more and not have a huge motor with a lot of nasty manners to it....but i got ask? what did u expect the 410 to be like? when i hear 410 CI right off the bat i think BIG, MEAN, LOUD and NASTY..lol i wouldn't expect nothing else with a N/A motor making that kinda power..IMO even 400 to the wheels N/A will be fairly radical...

 

[wytstang]

I think you are just getting to an age were you want comfort more then anything. From your post it seems you want a smoother power band vs a violent one. Maybe you just need to freshen up the interior. Make it feel more comfy, nice set of sporty comfortable seat and the fr500 steering wheel. Or sell off the big block to fund a low compression 306 with a KB.

 

[Venom351R]

This is what Im trying to avoid w/ my 408 build up. I want it to be fun to drive but still have a lot of power too. I think the set up I plan on going with will give me the best of both worlds. Im going to reuse my FTI camshaft so I know the street manners will be acceptable.

 

[Yobi1Kanobi]

I can't get my car to run right after my swap, so i know how you feel

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

Put a mild cam in and throw a s-load of boost at it. You'll see the benefits of both the added cubic inches and the boost. You could very well make it a tame part-throttle car that has excellent street manners, and flat out flies when you get into boost.

 

[Pokageek]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I thought the 414 would sound choppy but I did not realize how violent the idle and ride would be compared to the 306 h/c/i. I have also got too caught up into chasing a rwhp # when there will always be some1 faster.

There is no doubt that to get a car to go fast reliably you have to pay to play. Yes there are some people running stock blocks/internals etc..w/ boost getting lots but thats not my way of doing things.

I am 10:45:1 compression and secondly I simply do not want to put that kind of $$ into my car. In other words, engine PLUS boost is more money that I would want to put in any car.

 

[Black Stampede]

This is kinda funny cause I was thinking about this with my car the other day. I haven't completed the exhaust on my car yet so its open downpipe from the turbo right now so it cams and shakes like crazy. I was sitting in it the other day and the whole floor was rattling and shaking and I'm thinking, ok I like a loud car, but I feel like my flooboard is going to fall out fast and the furious style.

 

[toyman]

Well it looks like a few of us are of the same mind set. Last year when I installed the KB and built the engine and installed an O/R H pipe it was just way to loud. This past week I installed a complete Magnaflow cat back and it's still to loud (except at idle). Driving with the top down is deafening at 2000 rpm. So, who again, has the hi flow quiet mufflers?

 

[ram360]

sounds like the cam change is what you need. I DD my 94gt w/ built 351w all summer long. I'm 10.5:1 CR w/ FTI cam as well. Idles great, runs like a monster. Other than the fact it's LOUD (need to do some dynamat) no complaints w/ mine at all. I pull damn near 17-20mpg too. You obviously leave something on the table to pick up some driveability but It just comes down to how much your willing to put up w/ on the street. You wouldn't be the first person I've heard saying that.

 

[BlackVert]

welcome to the club bro

keith, i learned your lesson a while ago. if you don't like driving it, what is the point? hence my focus on manners, ease of driving it and dealing with all the little annoyances (the reasons for the aod, stock suspension, paint, new seats, and stock ride height).

maybe you now have a new definition of what "streetable" means to you

i know my definition of it is more, well ... stringent, than that of some of the younger folks on the board

 

[Stopsign32v]

Get a custom cam. Tell the cam grinder what you want out of the car and they will do the rest. If thats not good enough sell it and get a Lexus.

 

[Pokageek]

Yep. Hopefully this helps some of u as I think through this..The other part is to remind myself.. WHAT do I want to use this car for? If it is daily driving or making my wife happy this wont work. There's no middle ground without spending MORE serious cash and then I will be back where I had it with the pro-comps.

If I think of it as a third car then I feel better about the whole thing. I do get some joy out of it but its prolly the combination of things that add up to headache.

#1 The cam. It sounds great but too choppy idle and cruise for a DD for sure. I am not going to go this route just yet.
#2 The Trans. I may be willing to deal with it with a .74 5th gear instead of the .64. It currently that doesn't stop bucking until 65-70mph.
#3 The Long-tubes. The added TONS of power but DECREASED driveability. Why? I have weird popping and sputtering still at 2k rpm. The PMS doesn't take over until 4k RPM bc they said it would drive better...does anyone have suggestions on this item?
#4 LOUD. The car attracts attention. No drone but with increase rwhp come sSOOOOOUUUUNDDDD..

So I am a little aggravated at idle, then I am aggravated at 2k rpm bc of the miss/sputter..then aggravated at cruising bc it doesn't stop bucking until 65-70mph. So I u see why I am aggravated in general. However, I've got to start somewhere. Instead of re-arranging all my finances and trying to make it a daily driver with the cam, I will try the .74 5th gear cog. Maybe I wont mind the other things so much. I will also ask Rick about the LT issue..

If any of you are dealing with this stuff as a DD though..sheesh God bless you cuz I would be insane by now and definitely wouldn't own it. It all a learning curve.

 

[final5-0]

I totally understand what you are saying Keith

Over the years I've had many combos from mild to wild
but
The current sig combo is my first that had a pcm and fuel injection

I did tons of research before I decided to do the combo

I thought I was prepared and would not be surprised with the outcome
but
It turned out much better than I expected

The ability to work with the pcm made all the difference :Word:

I can describe it as stock-like in every aspect ... EXCEPT ... idle

It lopes a good bit
and
The valve train is a tiny bit louder at idle

With that being said .........
I wanted to describe a reference point for those less experienced

Yes ... I could drive it every day if I wished
but
It does draw a good bit of attention at stop lights, fast food joints, etc

It does not do all that great around town with gas consumption

So ... for me and my way of thinking ... It is a bit over the top for a d d

For a weekend toy ... Which has been the car's purpose since day one

Its great ... I love to drive the little GT ... Well ... kinda sorta

Can you believe I would say ... It needs more power

Like you ... I don't want something ... Race Car Like ... for my Street Car

You gotta be realistic ... AND ... You gotta do your due diligence :Word:

Then again ... You can only research something ... So Much

Lets talk cams here

A rule of thumb is small cubes need more radical cams than large cubes

So it all boils down this ... Staying within the confines of NA

Both of us needs to decide if we wanna make a cam change

I think a milder cam would help you a good bit
and
A really sharp tune with a focus on drivability would give you some relief

As for me ... I think it would be really fun
To see how close to the current stock-like drivability I could obtain by going
beyond the 1 rwhp per 1 ci rule of thumb with an OEM short block and go for
around 350 SAE rwhp

I'd think little hotter bumpstick and a bit of porting would do the trick

Then again ... more compromise in the area of lope at idle

anyway ... just a few random thoughts Keith
and
I really do know how you feel

Grady

 

[donkey_punch]

something isn't right if it bucks untill it reaches 65-70mph. i would look at getting that fixed. that seems like it would make any car unpleasant to drive.

 

[turbogt]

Here I am closing in on a "number" close to 500rwhp.. The car sounds like a rocket and is fast but you know what? I HATE DRIVING IT!!

What good is a car that you cant stand driving, just to be able to brag about rwhp? So I've decided to get a different cam to tone it down. I hate rattling at lights like a bucket of bolts and DidddititiitBoouudditiitit shaking like crazy and bucking. While I am considering options, does anyone think I can at least stay over 400rwhp with a mild cam? That will be about 500 HP total. Should I do anything else? Like go with something better than 3.55's to make up for the slight loss I will feel? Thanks.

At one point I even thought of parting it out and getting rid of my other car and just going with one car for less aggravation..or dumbing down the car enough to drive it every day and just have 2 cars instead of 3. And going with like an 07' stang or something. Again any ideas and opinions are appreciated. Thanks guys.

This is EXACTLY why I love forced induction over all motor setups...

 

[final5-0]

something isn't right if it bucks untill it reaches 65-70mph. i would look at getting that fixed. that seems like it would make any car unpleasant to drive.

Actually ... This is something that would be very common

Look at it like this

The revs are very low and the load is very light

You can have the same kinda situation driving around town in say
3rd gear at say 35 mph with a steady cruise

This is where custom tuning plays a big part in or

Grady

 

[S351Saleen77]

I'm curious of your cam spec's?

Mine is fine except in a parking lot. I need more tuning in that dept but I have a pretty big cam.

My other one the "stock" S351 drives like a dream with a much smaller cam.....and now that I put on some Bilstein HD'S it rides incredible! I have heard about Bilsteins for a while now and man they give a great ride.

 

[Pokageek]

I will try to dig the cam specs up. According to Rick it is a little radical for a DD. If he says that than it prolly is bc he is a tracker at heart.

"414ci 10.45:1comp

Hyd Roller CAM SPECS @ .050" .586/.584 248/254 108cl 112lsa (power will be around 3200-6500rpm)"

I dont know what 248/254 means ..or 108 ..or 112 to be honest lol.