Right When I Thought My Problems Couldn't Get Any Stanger

[sneaky98gt]

They did.

Car threw a code. P0175, system too rich, bank 2. Now I would have NEVER guessed this to be the case on my car. If I had to guess what my mixture would be, I would have definitely said it was lean. And anyone that remembers the issues I've had would probably think that, too.

To sum up the history, I put PI Intake, PI Cams, CAI, and UDPs on my car, and lost over .1 sec and 1 mph in the 1/8, and only ran a 15.2 at 90 mph in the 1/4. Everyone was telling me it was the tune, and that it was running lean. And that certainly made sense to me. So my plan was to get my exhaust done (hoping for a catted h pipe, but hasn't happened yet) and then get the car tuned. Now this happens...

So what would cause this on my car? Would it be related to my mods? Would my slow times be somehow related to the rich mixture? Does my car just hate me?

Thanks.

-Will

p.s. I think I have this in the right thread, but if not, please move it.

And damn, I can't even spell stranger...

 

[sneaky98gt]

Anyone?

 

[bhuff30]

The code is not related to WOT conditions. The code referes to closed loop conditions, and generally, modifications won't cause this to be thrown. There may be another cause, such as a leaking fuel injector, ect. Sorry, I can't help on the power problems. But you should definately look at the air fuel ratios for a clue.

 

[sneaky98gt]

Thanks bhuff. I actually just found this website looking around. Performance Probe Seems like the MAF could have a little something to do with it? How do I check long term fuel trims and such? Or do I have to take it somewhere and pay to get this checked?

You see bhuff, you and your car are the things that make me think something is wrong w/ my car other than the tune. You with just an h-pipe run a full second and 6.5 mph faster in the 1/4 than I do with CAI, PI intake and cams, UDPs, and a catback. I still think something is wrong. I'm gonna check out this MAF thing tomorrow, and maybe clean it. I don't want to reset the system yet if I can somehow get the long term fuel trims and see what's up with them.

Thanks for the help again.

-Will

 

[bhuff30]

On your trouble code, cleaning the MAF would be a good place to start. Sometimes, the oiled filters throw oil on the wire, causing it to read incorrectly. Also, look for vacuum leaks in the hoses and PCV and check the fuel pressure.

First, solve that code and you may find the power problem. Certainly, a huge vacuum leak or very dirty maf will cause the engine to run poorly and lack power.

There are really a LOT of factors that can effect your 1/4 mile performance. First, maintanance can have a huge effect. I prefer motorcraft plugs, run good AA traction rated tire and replace the air filter frequently, (just got a K&N recently). Also, when I run at the track, I do all the little tricks to gain a few ticks. I increase the pressure in the front tires and remove the spare tire and all the other normal junk I drag around. I also love running in nice weather . If you fix your code, do all these things to make sure your car is running it's best and still can't run a 14, then something is seriously wrong.

My only other point, is that mine is a manual, and I beat the $#!^ out of it at the track. I launch at 3-3500 slipping the clutch and power shift every gear. I know there are a lot of automatic fans, and I love the auto in my 88, but there is no way to run a stock auto hard like you can a manual.

It really is the whole package that makes a car run fast. With an underpowered car like this, you need every advantage you can get. I learned that from my 88 way back when. Every little thing makes a difference, and it is a heck of a lot cheaper than mods. You sometimes hear people talk about factory freaks... stock 5.0s that ran 13's or LS1s that ran 12s, bone stock, but they just know how to take advantage of every .01.

 

[sneaky98gt]

Thanks bhuff. My car is pretty well maintained. I changed the plugs and wires for motorcraft ones when I did the PI intake back last winter. Air filter was cleaned just before my last track run as well. I was in full street trim though (spare tire, jack, subs, regular air pressure) and the weather wasn't very good. I'm probably gonna be heading down to the track sometime again this fall when the weather is a little better, and I'll see how it plays out then. And considering beating it, I was shifting manually with the auto, but the rev limiter is only at about 5700 so I can't really do much more like that than I would be letting the tranny shift. That's another thing I look forward to fixing when I get it tuned.

I don't think there are any vacuum leaks. Me and my dad checked it a couple a months ago and it was right on 20 [units], and I thought that that's about where it should be, but I'm gonna check it again this afternoon.

How do I check the fuel pressure? And is there any way to check the long term fuel trims? My grandma has an SCT X3 on her Lightning; can it be used to monitor/check data like this?

Thanks.

-Will

 

[sneaky98gt]

Ok, I think my car really does hate me.

I was coming home from the drag strip tonight (didn't run though, only a spectator) and the car suddenly just wouldn't run; it would go perfectly for about 3 seconds, and then lose all throttle response and go to idle for about 10 seconds; I could only get to about 40 mph. Finally pulled off at a gas station when we got off the interstate, found that my cold air intake tube had come apart from the MAF where there's a little rubber connector holding them together. And we didn't have a single screwdriver to fix it....fml. But guess what we did have....duct tape. Yes, we duct taped my intake tube back together and drove the rest of the way home. Jerry rigged, but hey, it held. And when I was close to home, I got on it one time; honestly, the car felt as strong as ever.

On a more serious note, how can I check the long term fuel trims?

-Will

 

[1BADAOD]

if the car is still throwing the original code you posted about, I would say you have a bad 02 senser.

 

[deftsound]

You're fooling yourself if you think your slow times aren't because you don't have a custom tune. GET A TUNE

 

[bhuff30]

An air leak after the air meter can definately cause the engine to run poorly. That allows un-meter air into the engine, which causes the engine to be lean. That would definately hurt WOT power and could probably throw that rich code. Put it back together properly and reset the computer (because it probably learned a new fuel curve based on the air leak, just unplug the computer to reset it). After that, report here and tell us how it runs!

I'm not sure what ways are available for checking long term fuel trims, but even if you can, it won't tell you much. They are just a snap shot and difficult to decode what exactly is going on. I have a software on my laptop to pull codes and datalog various values, including fuel trims. But you'll just see that the engine computer is at the limits of it's fuel adjustment for whatever unknown reason, and it is still up to you to find the reason.

Seriously, even without a tune, he should be running way better than 90mph in the quarter. His car will be excessivly rich at higher rpms, but that won't hurt power so much it is SLOWER than stock. give me a break. Mine has never run slower than 94mph in a full pass, and it gets damn hot, humid and I'm at 1000'.

 

[BK_CAULEY]

i know this is a long shot but make sure your fuel pressure regulators vacumm line hasnt come off.

 

[sneaky98gt]

You're fooling yourself if you think your slow times aren't because you don't have a custom tune. GET A TUNE

I am planning to get it done this fall. I'm gonna get an h-pipe first though; I really think that the exhaust is holding me back quite a bit. And while I still agree I need a tune, and that I'll do a lot better with it, I can't understand why bhuff here is running a full second and 6.5 mph quicker in the 1/4 with just an h-pipe. What I'm starting to think is that my tune is somehow off, but not because of the mods; I'm thinking something else is causing it to be off, such as a bad MAF sensor, or something like that, and I hate to get it tuned before I figure out what that is and get it fixed.

An air leak after the air meter can definately cause the engine to run poorly. That allows un-meter air into the engine, which causes the engine to be lean. That would definately hurt WOT power and could probably throw that rich code. Put it back together properly and reset the computer (because it probably learned a new fuel curve based on the air leak, just unplug the computer to reset it). After that, report here and tell us how it runs!

I'm not sure what ways are available for checking long term fuel trims, but even if you can, it won't tell you much. They are just a snap shot and difficult to decode what exactly is going on. I have a software on my laptop to pull codes and datalog various values, including fuel trims. But you'll just see that the engine computer is at the limits of it's fuel adjustment for whatever unknown reason, and it is still up to you to find the reason.

Seriously, even without a tune, he should be running way better than 90mph in the quarter. His car will be excessivly rich at higher rpms, but that won't hurt power so much it is SLOWER than stock. give me a break. Mine has never run slower than 94mph in a full pass, and it gets damn hot, humid and I'm at 1000'.

Yea, I got the intake all back together, but I haven't reset the computer or cleaned the MAF sensor yet. Gonna do that tomorrow. I was out cruising tonight, and honestly, the car felt stronger; I'm sure that the much cooler weather here had a lot to do with that. I timed the 0-60 and got about 6.2-6.3, which is par for the course for my car. I'll see how it does tomorrow after I get these other things done.

i know this is a long shot but make sure your fuel pressure regulators vacumm line hasnt come off.

I'll check that tomorrow as well. I don't think that there is a vac leak. I checked a few weeks back and the vacuum was good, but I'll check again tomorrow. I think I can find it, but if not, where exactly is that?

Thanks.

-Will

 

[Frankenstang838]

Cleaning the MAF worked wonders on mine....first time cleaning after 4 years of ownership and a K&N filter the whole time, the cleaner commin out the bottom hole was BLACK as coal. Ran SO much better. haha

 

[sneaky98gt]

Cleaned the MAF sensor and reset the computer this morning. I've only driven for about an hour and 40 miles or so, so I don't know if the computer has completely relearned everything just yet. But so far, I can't really tell much difference.

 

[sneaky98gt]

I somehow wound up reading some info on cold air intakes last night, and found a few posts of people that had problems with it running rich after installing a fenderwell CAI. Something about the air not being metered correctly because of the bend before the MAF. I have this type of CAI; could this have possibly caused the rich code? Or is this fenderwell CAI thing a myth?

And also, if it is true, wouldn't I probably get as much gain as possible if I just left the CAI tube between the MAF and throttle body I have on now, put the stock housing back on before the MAF, and drop in a K&N? Certainly seems like the cheapest thing I could possibly do. And how do I remove the silencer? I'm not exactly sure what that is.

Thanks.

-Will

 

[bhuff30]

Certainly, there is some debate about the effectivness or CAI on our engines. The stock airbox is actually not bad at all and draws in cooler air from the fender anyway.

It is also true that a bend before the MAF can influence the readings of the MAF. The MAF needs flow that is more laminar and the bend causes quite a bit of turbulence. This can sometimes be programmed around if you have an experienced tuner, but it is best to have a streight 10-12" section ahead of the MAF. I'm not sure I would go so far to say it is causing your power problems, but anything is possible.

 

[tonytaylor85]

My grandma has an SCT X3 on her Lightning

I love your grandma.

 

[sneaky98gt]

I love your grandma.

ROFLMAO! 02 Lightning w/ intake, exhaust, 4lb lower, and custom SCT tune.... Most fun vehicle I have ever personally driven. The torque is ungodly.

And to think some people will still say to me: "But it's just a Lightning, and it's a truck, so it's slow and handles like a dog." Boy are they in for a surprise when they line up next to it....

-Will