05 3v 4.6L conversion

[D.Hearne]

If you want a carbed 4.6, then go with a 4V motor.

 

[speed1972]

I agree with you whole heartedly on that, the vct allows the 3v to make a lot more torque down low. But it would be possible for someone to go that route. I am planning to keep it the way it was designed even if it means getting the FRPP kit.

LB

 

[D.Hearne]

I agree with you whole heartedly on that, the vct allows the 3v to make a lot more torque down low. But it would be possible for someone to go that route. I am planning to keep it the way it was designed even if it means getting the FRPP kit.

LB

Well I don't know about the "more torque down low" part My 06 doesn't seem to do much of that. It does throw you back in the seat when the secondaries and cam timing kicks in though.

 

[speed1972]

If you lock the cam timing, the 2nd intake valve will open at all rpms not just the higher ones. The 3v creates the most low rpm torque with just 1 intake valve opening and if the cams were locked, both valves would open therefore causing a lower torque level.

I think we are both on the same page, just getting there diff ways. Either way, I'm against carb on this motor too!!

LB

 

[stonecoldtx]

If you lock the cam timing, the 2nd intake valve will open at all rpms not just the higher ones. The 3v creates the most low rpm torque with just 1 intake valve opening and if the cams were locked, both valves would open therefore causing a lower torque level.

I think we are both on the same page, just getting there diff ways. Either way, I'm against carb on this motor too!!

LB

It sounds like you have a basic misunderstanding of how these camshafts work.

There are three lobes per cylinder, and each one of them ALWAYS opens a valve--i.e.: each intake lobe opens an intake valve, and the exhaust lobe opens the exhaust valve.

There is no circumstance where both intake valves do not open (unless you have a flat lobe!).

The VCT system uses a "phaser" on each camshaft that advances and retards the camshafts depending on engine RPM, in order to produce the best possible power throughout the RPM range.

This "phaser" is controlled by the ECM, and there are devices available to limit or even lock the phaser entirely, for use with aftermarket camshafts.

However, the lobe placement on the camshaft is always in the same place, and it always opens it's corresponding valve.

 

[speed1972]

Ok, sounds good to me... I was wrong. Still, in the end a person is not limited to efi, they could use a carb if they so desired.

LB

 

[D.Hearne]

It sounds like you have a basic misunderstanding of how these camshafts work.

There are three lobes per cylinder, and each one of them ALWAYS opens a valve--i.e.: each intake lobe opens an intake valve, and the exhaust lobe opens the exhaust valve.

There is no circumstance where both intake valves do not open (unless you have a flat lobe!).

The VCT system uses a "phaser" on each camshaft that advances and retards the camshafts depending on engine RPM, in order to produce the best possible power throughout the RPM range.

This "phaser" is controlled by the ECM, and there are devices available to limit or even lock the phaser entirely, for use with aftermarket camshafts.

However, the lobe placement on the camshaft is always in the same place, and it always opens it's corresponding valve.

In addition, If I'm not mistaken (and I've yet to see a 3V motor apart aside from the cam covers off mine) There's a slide valve under the upper intake on each bank that opens & closes the secondary ports.

 

[wicked93gs]

I guess you didn't read what I posted. The 3V 4.6 needs the computer to advance and retard the cams, plus manage the function of the intake slide valves. A crank trigger only serves to manage the spark plugs firing.

ok, so you use megasquirt to control all that instead, megasquirt is a full standalone capable of all that once you find the voltages and resistance needed...though by that point there is no use in keeping a carb anyway, you could, but you might as ell have megaquirt control a set of injectors as well and get better mileage, I personally think carbs are obsolete these days unless you are keeping an engine original, EFI will always work better

 

[68stang351]

You might start buying a subscription to Modified Mustangs and Super Fords magazine. They are about to do this exact engine swap. They've already done a coupe to fastback conversion on this car, and I believe they are about to start covering the swap stuff real soon.

 

[Mustang1969]

Has anyone done a 3V test fit yet with the OEM shock towers in place? Page 108 of the 2009 FRPP catalog has the 4.6L SOHC motor at 25 5/8" wide and the 460 motor at 26" wide. Taking into consideration that the 460 is just as tall (without carb) as a fully dressed SOHC motor, it SHOULD be some sort of a drop in ordeal.

 

[wicked93gs]

I doubt it very much, every mod motor install I have seen whether SOHC or DOHC has had tower modifiction of some sort....with a SOHC you can get away with notched towers from what I have heard, but it wont fit with stock towers....and every mod motor conversion I have seen pictures of has either a mustang II install, or a RRS install(which costs even more)....that being said, here is a quote from themustangshop.com

"For those with 67-up cars doing SOHC 2v swaps, there is hope if you aren't wanting to go all the way with your front suspension. With a little trimming, the narrower SOHC engine will actually fit down in between them with about 1/2-inch to spare on each side. We have bolt-in custom motor mounts available for this swap, and combined with the rear crossmember you can make it work with minimal fabrication. For non-A/C cars, the heater motor will have to be flipped over (this can be done by pulling the heater box and unbolting it), and when the heater box is reinstalled we recommend using four nuts to space the box 1/4-inch further back from the firewall just for a little extra room. A front-sump oilpan and pickup will need to be used, we sell the Canton 15-790 and pickup as our favorite for the swap."

 

[Mustang1969]

I doubt it very much, every mod motor install I have seen whether SOHC or DOHC has had tower modifiction of some sort....with a SOHC you can get away with notched towers from what I have heard, but it wont fit with stock towers....and every mod motor conversion I have seen pictures of has either a mustang II install, or a RRS install(which costs even more)....that being said, here is a quote from themustangshop.com

"For those with 67-up cars doing SOHC 2v swaps, there is hope if you aren't wanting to go all the way with your front suspension. With a little trimming, the narrower SOHC engine will actually fit down in between them with about 1/2-inch to spare on each side. We have bolt-in custom motor mounts available for this swap, and combined with the rear crossmember you can make it work with minimal fabrication. For non-A/C cars, the heater motor will have to be flipped over (this can be done by pulling the heater box and unbolting it), and when the heater box is reinstalled we recommend using four nuts to space the box 1/4-inch further back from the firewall just for a little extra room. A front-sump oilpan and pickup will need to be used, we sell the Canton 15-790 and pickup as our favorite for the swap."

If the SOHC motor is narrower, according to Ford, than the 460 motor, which fits fine between the '69 shock towers, I'm wondering if you'd have to trim at all, which is why I'm hoping someone has done a test fit already.

The DOHC, however:

 

[65ShelbyClone]

The DOHC, however:

Just for the sake of comparison....

 

[wicked93gs]

remember also, the SOHC 2 valve motor is most likely narrower than the SOHC 3 valve(speaking of which, why did ford waste money developing a 3v? they could fit 4 valves in the same space and still control them with SOHC...after all, the neon does, and tons of other new cars...maybe they wanted to boost low end torque? it sure wasnt the power...they had a 300HP 4 valve they could have used, regardless, the 3v is obsolete already, due to be replaced by the 5.0 DOHC 4v coyote engine)


anyway, back on subject, while the engine itself may fit with half an inch to spare(according to the article I quoted) manifolds may well be a different matter entirely...on my 4v my cobra manifolds clear ok, but I no longer have shock towers

 

[65ShelbyClone]

(speaking of which, why did ford waste money developing a 3v? they could fit 4 valves in the same space and still control them with SOHC...after all, the neon does, and tons of other new cars...

I have been wondering that myself for a long time.