Valve Noise..

[KBExperience]

hey guys,

I've done my last 2 oil changes with Mobil1 5w30 and a MC filter, and before M1 I used the MotorCraft 5w20.. my question is, ever since i switched to Mobil 1 i get a lot of valve noise on a cold start, should I switch to M1 5w20? It seems to be the consensus that 5w30 protects engine parts better..

 

[02nightmaregt]

Probably because it is thicker. I know the manual states to use the 5w-20, but to me that is too thin. I normally run the 5w-30.

 

[streethorse]

You will get that noise with any oil you use. Its normal. Sometimes it
seems better sometimes worse. I mean it goes away in a couple of seconds
right? No big problem.

 

[nickmckinney]

Change the filter only and see if it goes away, your current filter might have a defective anti drain back valve.

 

[TheDukeOfEarl]

Never run 5-20 in any mod motor! They only put it in the cars to make milage requirements. It will damage your engine.

 

[EPIK]

Never run 5-20 in any mod motor! They only put it in the cars to make milage requirements. It will damage your engine.

HMMM. Please elaborate? I have been running 5w20 since I bought my car since thats what it says in the manual, but will 5w30 be better?

 

[KBExperience]

HMMM. Please elaborate? I have been running 5w20 since I bought my car since thats what it says in the manual, but will 5w30 be better?

Ford just put 5w20 in the manual because it will get better mileage that way. 5w30 is WAY better for your engine. 5w20 is too thin.

 

[Ateup]

LOL, I'm a noob here and I had already figured out where this thread was headed.

 

[streethorse]

Never run 5-20 in any mod motor! They only put it in the cars to make milage requirements. It will damage your engine.

5w 20 wont hurt your engine, 10w 40 wont hurt your engine.
Driver abuse and neglect will hurt your engine.

 

[cardudeusa]

5w 20 wont hurt your engine, 10w 40 wont hurt your engine.
Driver abuse and neglect will hurt your engine.

I run Mobil 1 10w 40 high mileage, makes no noise and I can get it for a good price.

 

[GDTrumbo]

I run 0W-30 Mobil 1 & Motorcraft filter. Instant oil pressure on cold start-up and no clatter. No issues.
It is possible you have a filter w/ a defective anti-drainback valve though.
Stay away from the 5W-20 weight, especailly if you tend to lean on yours frequently. The 5W-30 has a little more shear strength to it.

GT

 

[wmburns]

Why you should use 5W20 oil

My comments are assuming a late model (1999+) STOCK street driven 4.6 designed for 5W20 oil. Purpose built engines should use the oil recommended by your builder/manufacturer. Anything driven in a race application will have it's own set of requirements and adjustments should be made accordingly.

I suspect this is going to ignite a firestorm (torque wrench), but……..

Ford has designed the late model modular motors to run on 5W20 weight oil. The bearing clearances have been reduced in an effort to reduce internal friction losses (better mileage). As a result, thinner oil is needed to fully penetrate the bearings. The thinner oil is also needed to maintain adequate oil pressure in the top end (hydraulic lifters).

The bearing clearances change as the motor heats up. When cold, the clearances are very tight in locations with dis-similar metals. As the motor warms, the clearances open up. The thinner oil better protects these parts during warm up.

If you need an expert opinion on this, try reading Sean Hyland's book.

Amazon.com: How To Build Max-Performance 4.6-Liter Ford Engines (Cartech) (9781932494686): Sean Hyland: Books

It is also interesting the part about NEVER getting on your motor until it is warm/hot.

With regards to the noise on start up, it is a very common problem. Ford has a TSB on it. The noise comes from the timing chains. The noise goes away when the oil pressure comes up in the timing chain adjusters.

If the noise goes away within a few seconds after start up, it is a normal noise. You may find the noise takes a little longer to quiet down if the car is not driven every day. If driven every day, it may not make any noise at all.

Note, there are differences within the model years because Ford changed the design of the adjusters. The problem is more common in later model engines using the adjusters that do not "latch" as tight. The older adjusters have a prawl that holds the position without oil pressure.

For high mileage engines, be mindful that excessive wear on the timing chain tensioners can cause noise. If allowed to continue and wears past the plastic down to the metal, failure will result. Inspect the oil filter. Look for bits of plastic. If found, be concerned.

Ford has redesigned the adjusters/tensioners to reduce the noise. Recommend getting the lastest part should maintenance be done.

However, it is not a bad idea to use a premium oil filer. There really is a difference. I purchased an oil filter cutter. I was surprised to see how poorly constructed Fram oil filters really are. The difference is in the filter material and the drain back valve.

 

[cardudeusa]

Are the bearing clearances going to remain the same after 100,000 miles? I would assume they wouldn't which is why I'm running a thicker oil.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Never run 5-20 in any mod motor!

Absolutely wrong...

They only put it in the cars to make milage requirements.

True

It will damage your engine.

Patently FALSE

 

[Kilgore Trout]

My comments are assuming a late model (1999+) STOCK 4.6 designed for 5W20 oil. Purpose built engines should use the oil recommended by your builder.

I suspect this is going to ignite a firestorm (torque wrench), but……..

Ford has designed the late model modular motors to run on 5W20 weight oil. The bearing clearances have been reduced in an effort to reduce internal friction losses (better mileage). As a result, thinner oil is needed to fully penetrate the bearings. The thinner oil is also needed to maintain adequate oil pressure in the top end (hydraulic lifters).

The bearing clearances change as the motor heats up. When cold, the clearances are very tight in locations with dis-similar metals. As the motor warms, the clearances open up. The thinner oil better protects these parts during warm up.

If you need an expert opinion on this, try reading Sean Hyland's book.

Amazon.com: How To Build Max-Performance 4.6-Liter Ford Engines (Cartech) (9781932494686): Sean Hyland: Books

It is also interesting the part about NEVER getting on your motor until it is warm.

With regards to the noise on start up, it is a very common problem. Ford has a TSB on it. The noise comes from the timing chains. The noise goes away when the oil pressure comes up in the timing chain adjusters.

If the noise goes away within a few seconds after start up, it is a normal noise. You may find the noise takes a little longer to quiet down if the car is not driven every day.

Note, there are differences within the model years because Ford changed the design of the adjusters. The problem is more common in later model engines using the adjusters that do not "latch" as tight. The older adjusters have a prawl that holds the position without oil pressure.

However, it is not a bad idea to use a premium oil filer. There really is a difference. I purchased an oil filter cutter. I was surprised to see how poorly constructed Fram oil filters really are. The difference is in the filter material and the drain back valve.

Another great post by WMBurns... Are you a Ford tech or what?

Anyways, although I am not sure about the bearing tolerances as I have heard both ways on that I do absolutely agree that you should NEVER get on your car until the temp guage has moved to the normal operating position (fully warmed up).

I think the OP simply needs to go back to 5W-20.

 

[GDTrumbo]

Seems I read in some of the exerpts from Sean Hylands book that he recommends to not lean on it until the coolant temp reaches at least 140*. I don't until op temp anyway.

As far as the tolerances, I doub't there are any differences between the '96-'98 mods and the '99+ PI counterparts. Remember, from an engineering standpoint, when tightening design tolerances you pretty much add a decimal point in cost.

GT

 

[wmburns]

change the oil and it will last.

Are the bearing clearances going to remain the same after 100,000 miles? I would assume they wouldn't which is why I'm running a thicker oil.

I disagree. The modular 4.6 engine is a very durable design. With proper lubrication, this engine will LAST. It is common to see vehicles in livery/taxi service with more than 275K+ miles. No real service beyond manufacture’s recommendations (and probably not that regular at that).

Possibly the weakest link is the timing chain adjusters. Over time, the plastic will wear. If the wear is allowed to continue eventually it will wear down to the metal. Once there, catastrophic failure will result.

Gone are the days when engine are put together with major sloppy clearances that drastically increase with age. The tighter clearances along with better bearing materials (and better oils) truly does make these engines last.

So if your motor has over 200K miles, already has poor oil pressure, or is making noise all the time, I agree. Thicker oil may improve the situation.

If you want your modular motor to last, change the oil. Keep the cooling system clean. Don’t over rev the engine. Don’t run the motor for long periods of time out of tune.

 

[trinity_gt]

Ford recommends 5W50 in the high-power GT500 and GT mod motors. Clearly the mod motor can tolerate the viscosity of a 5W30. Let the thing warm up before getting on it and use only Motorcraft filters (best anti-drainback valve I've seen yet) and it will be fine.

And FWIW, the 5W20 spec would have been fully verified and validated by Ford in their dyno cells. There's no way in hell they would specify a grade of oil to get 0.01 more MPG at the expense of engine failures down the line.

 

[sbelyo]

I've run 5w20 for 8 years and 125K miles with no problems.

 

[TheDukeOfEarl]

Absolutely wrong...


True


Patently FALSE

I will reply to mister kilgors statement. I am sorry but you are the wrong one. My info comes straight from one of the ford engineers that did the 4.6 inital testing. He said he would never recomend running the 5w20. He would never run it in his car. He has torn down literly hundreds of 4.6 engines and seen the damage first hand. Ford only put it in the cars to make better milage. He recomends 5w30 at a minium. Now what is your info based on?