Upper control arm shaft kit question

[sparx]

Got these new Moog upper control shaft kits today. I have two rubber grommets per kit, where do they go?

Also I notice there is no "O" ring inside the caps as per the set I removed from the car. Not sure if that is bad or not.

I read on a site (sorry cannot recall where) that people cut a groove down the shaft thru the threaded area to prevent grease blowout or something and also that the caps are welded with tack welds to the control arm. I am not clear on the tack welds, not on the grease groove either!

Any info is appreciated as always.

[/IMG]
sparx

 

[2+2GT]

Got these new Moog upper control shaft kits today. I have two rubber grommets per kit, where do they go?

Also I notice there is no "O" ring inside the caps as per the set I removed from the car. Not sure if that is bad or not.

I read on a site (sorry cannot recall where) that people cut a groove down the shaft thru the threaded area to prevent grease blowout or something and also that the caps are welded with tack welds to the control arm. I am not clear on the tack welds, not on the grease groove either!

They are boots, not grommets. They go on the end caps before they are installed. These are an alternate design to the OEM style O-rings.

Don't do the groove thing.

I recommend three tack welds around the cap where it enters the arm. I have seen a few caps come loose.

 

[sparx]

thanks for the reply

I like the O rings better. I posted threads on how to evaluate the condition on these shafts did not get any info.

My original shafts are not any worse than these, just grimey, can new "O" rings be had to replace the old ones?

These boots don't make any sense to me.
sparx

 

[Opentracker]

Don't do the groove thing.

Just wondering, why you would not recomend putting in a grease grove?

 

[sparx]

Just wondering, why you would not recomend putting in a grease grove?

Can you detail the grease groove please not sure what it was aimed to accomplish, I forget things at times.

Can I get "O" rings at the local hardware? I see no issues with my existing shafts other than flat O rings and grime. They were a real BEAR to disassemble BTW.

Thanks for the assistance.
sparx

 

[Opentracker]

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
-----------------
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/


Make a small, narrow grove across the TOP of the shaft like this (I use a thin cut off wheel on a die grinder). It gives the grease a path to where it's needed most. It helps a lot to de-burr and pre-lube everything. Put the shaft back in and make sure it's centered in the arm. Snug the big nuts down and back them off one flat (1/6 turn), then weld on a tab or put a nut and bolt in place to keep the nuts from moving.

You should be able to find something that will work for an O ring at a hardware store, if not, let me know, I have some.

TAB

Nut-N-Bolt

 

[sparx]

Thanks!
I like the nut and bolt idea also
I will be using the new MOOG shafts, the threads on the exiting unit are flat spotted so no use putting them back on the control arm.
sparx

 

[Opentracker]

I've seen them worn almost half way through. Not a good idea from the factory for sure but if you keep them greased, they do last a long time.

Good luck

 

[2+2GT]

Glazier Nolan has the special O-rings if you can't find them locally. The groove is a waste of time, and reduces load bearing surface. If your grease gun can't push grease down those big threads to and through the seal, throw it away.

ALWAYS follow the factory instructions on replacement of the shaft. The manual tells you how to make a special tool to be sure you don't squeeze the sides of the arm too close together, or offset the attaching bolts.

I never trusted the tightness of the caps on this setup, I've seen a few come loose- not good. I tack weld three spots around the cap to the arm.

 

[sparx]

I have read to groove either the top or bottom. I did wonder how the grease could not pass over such coarse threads.

I am not sure how " offset attaching bolts" could occur unless no attention is paid to the installation.

The MOOG kits I purchased have splines on the bolt shank adjacent to the head to prevent spinning, as OEM must have had.

I am undecide on the groove cut ATM.

I will either tack weld the caps or install a nut and bolt.
sparx

 

[Opentracker]

The groove is a waste of time, and reduces load bearing surface. If your grease gun can't push grease down those big threads to and through the seal, throw it away.

Well, it's not a waste of time if you know what your doing. I've never herd that one before. The grease groove has been around for a long time and has been proven to work. If it didn't work, I wouldn't do it. Let me explain why it works for the rest of us.

When the shaft kit gets some miles on it, there is a gap under it and the grease you pump in goes under the shaft and out past the seal. None gets to the top of the shaft. That's why a lot of people say the car still squeeks after greasing. With the grease groove on the top, the grease will go where it's needed, at the top. If you put the groove at the bottom, it doesn't help but to fill up the area under the arm with grease.

With no grease groove, the best way I have found to get the top of the shaft wet with grease is to put the car up on stands and let the suspension drop. Put a pry bar under the big nuts/bushings and pry up as your pumping the grease in. That closes up the gap under the shaft and pushes the grease over the top of the shaft. I have been doing this trick forever and it works.

 

[sparx]

Ok
Groove on top.
I have to use the Dremel with cut off wheel to cut the groove, but I have lots of experience with the Dremel so that should work.

sparx

 

[2+2GT]

I have read to groove either the top or bottom. I did wonder how the grease could not pass over such coarse threads.
Exactly. The only way grease won't get through is if there is 0.000" clearance.

I am not sure how " offset attaching bolts" could occur unless no attention is paid to the installation.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get them 1/8" one way ot the other.

The MOOG kits I purchased have splines on the bolt shank adjacent to the head to prevent spinning, as OEM must have had.
Yes, they did. Even the aftermarket kits I have seen are good in this regard, which is remarkable for $23.50.

I am undecided on the groove cut ATM.
Hmmm… Lesse, you spend time on it, lose maybe 5% of your bearing surface, and gain nothing.

I will either tack weld the caps or install a nut and bolt.
The nut and bolt shown either is shallow does nothing, or a groove compromising the strength of the shaft must be cut. A few tack welds takes far less time, and adds a little strength. Welding on a tab to block the hex cap won't work in extreme cases, it doesn't unscrew, it works it's way straight off. Just weld the caps. It's quick, easy, and lasts. And if you ever need to rebuild again, a few quick shots with the whiz wheel and it comes right off.

 

[Opentracker]

I have read to groove either the top or bottom. I did wonder how the grease could not pass over such coarse threads.
Exactly. The only way grease won't get through is if there is 0.000" clearance.

I am not sure how " offset attaching bolts" could occur unless no attention is paid to the installation.
You'd be surprised how easy it is to get them 1/8" one way ot the other.

The MOOG kits I purchased have splines on the bolt shank adjacent to the head to prevent spinning, as OEM must have had.
Yes, they did. Even the aftermarket kits I have seen are good in this regard, which is remarkable for $23.50.

I am undecided on the groove cut ATM.
Hmmm… Lesse, you spend time on it, lose maybe 5% of your bearing surface, and gain nothing.

I will either tack weld the caps or install a nut and bolt.
The nut and bolt shown either is shallow does nothing, or a groove compromising the strength of the shaft must be cut. A few tack welds takes far less time, and adds a little strength. Welding on a tab to block the hex cap won't work in extreme cases, it doesn't unscrew, it works it's way straight off. Just weld the caps. It's quick, easy, and lasts. And if you ever need to rebuild again, a few quick shots with the whiz wheel and it comes right off.

You are so wrong on so many points I won't even get into it. With almost 1K post in 6 months, it's not hard to see what's going on.

 

[2+2GT]

Interesting. Never had the problem of squeaks after greasing. Of course, I've only been working on Mustangs since 1966.

 

[2+2GT]

You are so wrong on so many points I won't even get into it. With almost 1K post in 6 months, it's not hard to see what's going on.

Please, go into it. Throw me into the briar patch.

What's going on is I got tired of lurking.

BTW, I really like your roller setup on the upper arms. If I were to upgrade from stock arms, I'd go with that.

 

[sparx]

I don't want to get into the feud, nor do I mind if you all have one.

Seems to me that one thin slot on top of that shaft across the threaded area is not going to weaken the part. I don't have tons of auto experience, nevertheless the load capacity of that shaft has got to be beyond the need in the first place.

I would rather not have to take this apart anytime soon to correct a squeak.

sparx

 

[2+2GT]

Seems to me that one thin slot on top of that shaft across the threaded area is not going to weaken the part. I don't have tons of auto experience, nevertheless the load capacity of that shaft has got to be beyond the need in the first place.

I would rather not have to take this apart anytime soon to correct a squeak.

It won't weaken the part much, but it will eliminate some of the load bearing surface where you need it most. Regular greasing minimizes the issue, though. I have several hundred thousand miles on mine, and have replaced these shafts once. I just don't see the point if you plan on greasing the car at regular intervals. I advocate tack welding the caps as a matter of safety, kinda like switching from single to double master cylinder. You don't have to, but…

 

[sparx]

I am a stickler for regular oil changes and lube, sooner than any factory manual suggests. I also use Mobile 1, used to in the Corvette (gone now), and in our Monte Carlo SS.
sparx

 

[2+2GT]

I am a stickler for regular oil changes and lube, sooner than any factory manual suggests. I also use Mobile 1, used to in the Corvette (gone now), and in our Monte Carlo SS.
sparx

Yeah, I do oil and grease at 3000, with STP oil Treatment, and adjust the lifters for good measure. (289HP)