shock absorber selection

[rbohm]

You haven't driven the roads around here, I'm guessing. I used the Konis for over 5 years in FL, but 6 months in PA and I was done.

sorry to disappoint you but i have been to pa, and new york, and i can tell you that the roads are no worse than here in arizona or in virginia. i have relatives that live in pittsburg. i have also been to louisiana, and the roads there are not the greatest either.

as for not using air shocks, you can use them, but you need to use large, thick washers to spread the load at the shock mount. i have air shocks on my 64 falcon with the needed washers, and have had no issues, and that car spent 20 years in pittsburg as a daily driver, even in the winter, before it was retired to arizona where it will under go restomodding.

 

[htwheelz67]

I had kyb gas adjusts and my car rode like a truck, I installed konis and huge improvement in ride and handling, next best would be bilstiens. The biggest mistake is putting gasadjusts front and rear, gas adjusts front and gr-2's rear is a cheap OK riding setup but Koni's are the best and the most expensive but worth it.

 

[sparx]

in regards to the shocks, the konis are the best, though expensive. they are fully adjustable and are designed to be set at full soft initially and adjusted as they wear. they are also rebuildable.

the KYB's are very good shocks, some have complained that they are too stiff, but i havent found that to be true.

the edelbrocks i have heard good things about, but never used them.

I have plans to use KONI's and wanted to know what you mean by: "adjusted as they wear".

sparx

 

[rbohm]

the koni's were designed to be set at the full soft setting, and as they age and the internal seals and valving change and become less able to handle the fluid flow, you adjust the shocks to the next stiffness setting. you continue to do this until the shock is at full hard, then you rebuild the shock and go back to the full soft setting. this allows you to run the shock for about 100k miles before you rebuild them. what the racers have done is use the shock to tune the suspension by changing the bounce and rebound settings.

 

[sparx]

thanks
I just need to read the manual to set them soft then.
sparx

 

[golf4283]

I have the KYB Gas-Adjusts and they ride perfectly on my car. my '66 mustang has 650 front coils with shelby drop. 1" front swaybar. Rears are 5 leaf mid-eye's with a 1/2" sway bar. My car runs smooth as silk and soaks up the bumps nicely.

I guess the only thing though is harshness is felt differently by different people. I live in Chicago where the roads are some of the worst and the KYB's feel great and soft to mee with great response. I also have no bump-steer or any other problems normally associated with old cars so maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[66forfun]

I need to call BS on the "adjust Koni as they wear".
Nothing in my paperwork says that.
You get stiffer for every 180deg turn when fully compressed up to 720deg.
My car needed tuned to stiffen up the shocks so it wouldn't float down the road like a caddy with bad struts when i figured the soft settings are what I needed. They are adjustable, not seperate adjustments for compression and rebound like the full zoot race shocks, but adjustable none the less and I'm sure would make a great choice for any spring rate you choose.

 

[Helmantel]

I would need to look up the instructions to be sure but I don't think the standard Koni setting is full soft, but somewhere in the middle.

Whether you consider the adjustability a cure for wear or a possibility for tuning doesn't really matter. It can be used for both. I've been at the Koni factory where they also mentioned that in a presentation.

With the regular shocks (like the ones available for or Mustangs), you only adjust the rebound.

I'm no shock expert, but from some reading (for example Koni instructions), I understand that the bump resistance is mainly to control the unsprung mass to avoid that the wheels loose grip when going over a bumpy road. The rebound stroke has more influence on the handling (body lean, brake dive etc.) and can be adjusted according to the preference of the owner.

I also seem to recall from that presentation at the factory that the construction was such that there wear doesn't affect the bump stroke, so no bump adjustability was needed.

Koni specialist Truechoice builds replicas of the vintage double adjustable Koni race shocks (as used in Trans Am racing). I've heard they're great, but be prepared to pay. They're on page 8:

http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/2007_TKRS_Catalog.pdf

 

[S-Car-Go]

I guess it's a matter of budget and prefference. When I went to have my konis rebuilt in the late 70's early 80's the cost was almost as much as buying a new set. That was directly with Koni. Things may have changed since then. I'd still take my bilstiens over the Konis from what I remember of the Konis (5 settings for rebound only).

 

[68RCodeConv]

I had kyb gas adjusts and my car rode like a truck, I installed konis and huge improvement in ride and handling, next best would be bilstiens. The biggest mistake is putting gasadjusts front and rear, gas adjusts front and gr-2's rear is a cheap OK riding setup but Koni's are the best and the most expensive but worth it.

+1. The difference is dramatic.

I had KYBs on my 67 GT350. 520 coils lowered an inch, 5 leaf springs in the rear. Ride was VERY stiff. It was fatiguing to drive on the highway as any road dip would snap your head around.

Changed to the Konis (set them pretty soft) and there was no comparison. Improved both the ride AND the handling. IMO the big advantages of the Konis is that you can keep a compliant suspension and still get good handling. No need to resort to extreme lowering and spring rates.

I have Bilsteins on my 68 vert and while they are much better than the KYBs I wish I had bought Konis instead.

I also have the Gas-a-just on my 73 convertible and they are coming off. It is just a cruiser so I will probably replace them with GR2s. The Gas-a-just are just too stiff - a speed bump slings you all over the inside of the car.

 

[amorrow]

I would need to look up the instructions to be sure but I don't think the standard Koni setting is full soft, but somewhere in the middle.

That's the impression I have as well. While I left mine in their original setting with 620 front coils and 5-leafs in the rear, I can't remember if I read that in the instructions or heard it from a tech.

Koni specialist Truechoice builds replicas of the vintage double adjustable Koni race shocks (as used in Trans Am racing). I've heard they're great, but be prepared to pay. They're on page 8:
http://www.truechoicekoniracingservices.com/2007_TKRS_Catalog.pdf

Wow, I wasn't aware these were being made. The integrated bump stops are neat, and I'd be interested in hearing reviews of these shocks.

 

[Helmantel]

Wow, I wasn't aware these were being made. The integrated bump stops are neat, and I'd be interested in hearing reviews of these shocks.

Some vintage racers commented that they're great and make a big difference over regular Konis. Of course, they should be at four times the price of an already expensive standard Koni.......

 

[zookeeper]

Lots of opinions here, so I'll toss mine on the pile. I use stock front coils, with one full coil lopped off and the A-arm dropped 1". Out back I have 5 leaf mid-eyes and KYB Gr-2 shocks all around. I have a 1" bar on the front and an adjustable 3/4" bar out back set on full stiff. The car sticks like glue with very little body roll even on hard corners, yet is very liveable for sane driving speeds. Rides better than my '04 F250 in fact.

 

[4MuscleMachines]

I have used the ones the OP mentioned as well as the QA1's many times and also on the same cars. The best performance for the bang for me are Bilsteins. A very close second would be the Konis due to their adjustability. The QA1's third, even though they are adjustable they don't dampen as well as the Konis or Bilsteins plus they tend to leak. The Edelbrocks and KYB's are the brands I would distantly choose as last.

 

[68er]

Lots of opinions here, so I'll toss mine on the pile. I use stock front coils, with one full coil lopped off and the A-arm dropped 1". Out back I have 5 leaf mid-eyes and KYB Gr-2 shocks all around. I have a 1" bar on the front and an adjustable 3/4" bar out back set on full stiff. The car sticks like glue with very little body roll even on hard corners, yet is very liveable for sane driving speeds. Rides better than my '04 F250 in fact.

sounds like your set-up is pretty close to what i have in the works zookeeper,... what are you calling "sane speeds", and at what point does that setup get 'unlivable'?

i'm also curious as to how much harder i'll be able to hit the corner after the uca drop? (compared to before)

 

[68er]

hey s-car-go,

whats the story on those sub-frames?
i havent bought mine yet (next paycheck probably), thinking about going with laurel mountain's.

any advice?

 

[zookeeper]

sounds like your set-up is pretty close to what i have in the works zookeeper,... what are you calling "sane speeds", and at what point does that setup get 'unlivable'?

i'm also curious as to how much harder i'll be able to hit the corner after the uca drop? (compared to before)

It's kinda hard to describe, but for me, the suspension I have is (dare I say it) perfect. If I'm just running errands or out for a leisurely drive, it's firm, but nowhere close to being harsh. If I've got my wife and kid in the car, plus a full tank of gas, some cleaning stuff and a small cooler of sodas in the trunk and maybe one of my son's freinds along and going to an out of town show, it's firm enough to keep the rear axle off the exhaust. It NEVER bottoms out, nor do the tires rub and the car is pretty low. If I'm by myself and feeling frisky, the car is firm enough to corner as hard as anything I've ever driven, and it sticks. It doesn't deflect or bump-steer due to flex at any point. I honestly feel the car is very balanced and very stable. It works for me and it's simple, cheap and effective.

 

[68er]

the suspension I have is (dare I say it) perfect. ....I honestly feel the car is very balanced and very stable.... It works for me and it's simple, cheap and effective.

sweeet! pragmatism works every time! (i'm building this thing mostly just to wring it out, but it spends plenty of time bumpin' around town with passengers in the back)

being a pragmatist myself....i'm going to try sticking with the stock front swaybar for now, so maybe i'll go with gas adjusts up front and get the same effect (?), reasoning that your 1" swaybar is prob'ly 50% stiffer than a spindly little 5/8" stocker. what do you think?

also...how did you cut your springs? i'm thinking about using a chop saw so the end will sit flat on the spring perch... but i'm worried that the heat buildup will ruin the tension.

and how is your rear swaybar adjustable? never heard of that.

 

[zookeeper]

I cut the springs exactly how you described, plain, old abrasive saw. It cuts quickly and doesn't even blue the spring, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over altered spring rates.
I'd try to get the 1" front bar if you can. Since my car is kinda low, I ditched the long end bolts and mounted the bar almost directly to the lower control arm, using a short bolt, the two cupped washers and the poly bushings. Otherwise the center of the bar nearly touches the ground.
As for the rear bar, I got it from Tony Branda, and it's adjustable by moving the end forward or rearward on the bar. It's pretty slick and easy to mount, I'll see what I can do about snapping a picture tomorrow.

 

[68er]

`cool. i'd like to see that. i already have a non-adjustable rear swaybar ($50 still in the package off craigslist). i'll swap the front swaybar later if it needs it.

i'm ordering the shocks today, and subframe connectors next paycheck. my brother has access to a car lift when its time to start twisting wrenches (that puts alot of the fun back in it - i'm getting too decrepit for much stooping these days)
he also has a gtech application on his iphone that has a skidpad feature. supposedly you mark off a certain diameter circle in a parking lot, and ride around it faster and faster until your tires can't stick any more. it gives a rating in Gs. i'm gonna try it before/after the mods to get a measure of the improvment.

this oughta be fun!