new 331 - feels like it has 100hp

[2002BLGT]

the electronics of your MAF should be part number F2VF-12B579-A2A and the C&L chart here
C&L Calibration Tube Chart
shows the 76mm MAF should have a black tube for a GT car with 24lbs injectors , one end of the sample tube should have black paint on it , one reason C&L advertises such HP gains is because they are notorious for leaning out the fuel mixture even on a stock car , so now that you have a stroker engine and larger cylinder heads the MAF is probably leaning the engine out too much and thats why you are lacking power , only way to fix the lean condition and keep the C&L is with a custom tune done with the aid of a wideband to adjust the fuel mixture properly , if you put the stock MAF back on a mail order chip would do you just fine and make alot more power than you are now

 

[sick95gt]

Ok, when I get the car back I will check it out. Unfortunately I do not have the stock MAF.

 

[Pokageek]

Sounds like the monkeys I took my car to. They charged my $1200 to tell me I had a bad MAF calibration!!! I found out later that's the first thing they should have checked instead of spending hours looking at other stuff.

Then the next shop I went to - there was a blip on the dyno sheet around 2400 where the car actually LOST power and TQ and then went back up and they tried to say thats just normal! It was noticeable even during normal driving but they pretended it didn't exist.

Then another shop said that they were kind enough to "power shift" my car for me. Isn't that kind. I love shops that offer that service.

I know I have had my share of combo problems but there is only ONE builder/tuner that I know will not abuse my car. I have not met any other tuner that I trust. In my o, most of them will use, abuse and screw you and your car.

 

[2002BLGT]

Ok, when I get the car back I will check it out. Unfortunately I do not have the stock MAF.

Where did you get the electronics for the C&L then ?

 

[sick95gt]

This was about 4 years ago. I think I remember getting the c&l from Summit...

 

[2002BLGT]

This was about 4 years ago. I think I remember getting the c&l from Summit...

only way summit sells C&L is thru the vortech and C&L meters reuse the stock electronics , nobody sells them with the electronics , I am assuming you threw away the stock housing and put the electronics in the meter , so you have had the C&L on the car for 4 years ? if so did you originally have 19lbs injectors on it , or did you put the 24lbs injectors on it at that time ?

 

[sick95gt]

Yes, now that I think about it, I used the stock electronics and swapped the housings. The injectors were changed at the same time. This was done about 4 years ago when I did my last H/C/I combo and it ran great for a few weeks until me and a friend beat on it too hard and I think it overrevved and messed up something internal. It had crazy vibration issues. But that was my old 302 and its the reason I decided to just put in a 331 crate. The car was just sitting for 4 years.
I just had the mechanic call me and he said that he tried timing and it still ran like trash. He said there are a few different firing orders that have been used from various years and he is going to call my engine builder to make sure he using the proper one for the engine he built. Why he didn't do that in the first place is beyond me, but now he knows I'm pissed and it needs to be done right before I pick it up. He basically said it feels like it lost 300hp somewhere and it falls flat on its face no matter how he had the timing. So, hopefully firing order is it. If not, I will have him check the MAF

 

[mustang51js]

i ordered a mail order tune to replace the one that came with the vortech kit, i dont know what they did but the car ran like crap and like you said it sounded like it was moving and going nowhere, so i got a dyno tune and the way it was it made 187rwhp and after it was 420rwhp,it was dumping alot of fuel with the old tune, so get it tuned by someone that knows what there doing.I also had to upgrade the maf but that wasnt the main problem

 

[Tanus]

wrong firing order seems like the likely culprit. 302's have 2 different firing orders. yours will be 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8. whenever I buy a new distributer cap the first thing I do is scratch thoughs #s into the cap. also, once its running good swap your 190lph pump for a 255 or leave the 190 and add a 255 in-line pump.

Then another shop said that they were kind enough to "power shift" my car for me. Isn't that kind. I love shops that offer that service.

haha, hey post pics of your air intake set-up if you got them, I plan to go to home depot tomorrow and rig something up.

 

[sick95gt]

i ordered a mail order tune to replace the one that came with the vortech kit, i dont know what they did but the car ran like crap and like you said it sounded like it was moving and going nowhere, so i got a dyno tune and the way it was it made 187rwhp and after it was 420rwhp,it was dumping alot of fuel with the old tune, so get it tuned by someone that knows what there doing.I also had to upgrade the maf but that wasnt the main problem

So, you had the mail order tune and it made 187hp? Then dyno tuned by someone else and it made 420? I don't know if I understood that correctly. But if so, thats ridiculous. I plan on getting a dyno tune by a shop that deals with a lot of mustangs.

 

[fish254]

sounds like a mass air problem to me from other people i heard the c&l meter has alot of problems

 

[Pokageek]

sounds like a mass air problem to me from other people i heard the c&l meter has alot of problems

:OT: but hey Fish, is that your original car color? Looks real good in your sig man.

 

[629RWHPstang]

dumb but you have a lot of vibrations? miss the key way on the harmonic balencer?

 

[sick95gt]

dumb but you have a lot of vibrations? miss the key way on the harmonic balencer?

It vibrates a little bit, but not alot at all. Only at high RPM and its very little.

 

[fish254]

it was repainted using the tri stage paint like you would paint a candy color

 

[99FiveOh]

Wouldn't the wrong firing order make it idle like dog doodoo as well?

 

[HankyGT]

The car won't run on the wrong firing order.

You guys are obviously reading right over other issues if his guages are goofing up and there is a charging problem.

Check the vehicle grounds first and formost and make sure the block to chassis grounds are in place, and you actually have some. Sounded 110% like some sort of grounding issue to start.

If the electronics are not seeing proper voltage; NOTHING is going to work right. Make sure your alternator is hooked up correctly and the power wire isn't loose.

I wouldn't touch one thing until you fix the charging system. Then by process of elimination move forward. I wouldnt trust the car without a tuned ECU, but you CAN get the car to work semi-well and not exerpt the symptoms you are having.

As for timing, does the car have the spout connector for the distributor plugged back in? This is located next to your MAF harness and there is a grey block that plugs in. You remove this to set your base timing. If you set your base timing with the spout in, the computer will not adjust correctly from zero and you will be WAY off. If you neglect to plug the spout back in (sorta sounds like your case from a blind shot in the dark) the car will not advance timing throught the ECU and you will run like crap once its under load. Set the car at 12 degree BTDC to start with the spout unplugged. Plug it back in after you set it.

Fuel Pressure. Is it set correctly? Do you have a gauge? Make sure it's between 39-42 psi (some tuners like it different places but it NEEDS to be above 38)

MAF calibration to the injectors is a big thing; but is this the first time it was used or was your old 302 setup with the 24# and that C&L working correctly? If it worked before, it is unlikely the problem.

Vaccum leaks are a great killer of power and can happen easily. You'd be suprised where these can rob you. Be sure they didn't warp your intake or phenolic spacer from fittiment issues. I actually had my edelbrock intake ship to me .030 uneven from square through the center and it warped my phenolic spacer causing a vaccum leak and power loss....though your issues sound very severe and such a leak will cause a hanging tach.

Go over these basics and you are near sure to find the issue. Then go have it tuned.

 

[99FiveOh]

If you have 1 or 2 pairs of wires mix matched, it WILL be the WRONG firing order, but the car will RUN. It's not a bloody 4 cyl for christ's sake!

 

[HankyGT]

In neutral, she revs up like she wants so fast and smooth, but in gear, she just doesnt perform

It idles great and revs up fine, but under load, just doesnt feel like going anywhere. What startles me is that it revs up like a beast and so fast, but wont put any power to the ground....

This does NOT sound like a firing order issue. Yeah the car will run, but it's going to run like utter ass and if you use the non HO firing order I've seen them do nothing but try to backfire. Yanking off a plug wire is another story but you are still trying to ignite something and you will notice REAL fast if it ignites that mess on a whim when the exhaust valve is hanging open.

 

[sick95gt]

Ok, I got it tuned and it runs A LOT better. It actually has power now! It vibrates a little bit at high RPM, which concerns me. The tuner said it concerned him too. New mounts, new balancer, fairly new clutch and flywheel (1000 miles on old engine that had vibration issues). Now, I have an exhaust leak, so I am going to figure more stuff out...