Livernois Motorsports gets 415 RWHP / 399 RWTQ in the new 5.0!

The flow of heads isn't that critical anyway...

Ever take a look at the head of a Japanese sport bike? They are making way over 2HP per CI, revving to 15K, and its not because their heads have amazing flow numbers....

Adam

Hey adam, i've been thinking about this as i have never looked up sport bike motor details....even though i have a 636.


Anyhow, i figured i'd look up the king....the busa. 1300cc's or so depending on which model. In stock form at 28" they come in at 234.9int/157.9ex. Stage 1 porting puts it at 257.1/177.4. Those both are at .45" valve lift.


Now competitioncnc has their busa making 221hp with the stage 1 porting. Thats....more than a stock 5.0 (well the first 5.0 lol).

Seeing as 1300cc's equals about 79 cubic inches....arent those spectacular numbers (head flow and power) for such a tiny motor? Obviously torque is gonna be lacking. But just looking at a engine size/cylinder head flow ratio....the busa is off the charts.


*not trying to argue, simply trying to learn the lesson you were trying to teach :flag:
 
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lol exactly. You didnt miss much by not reading. Just fivepointNO(by the way whats your name?) and I entertaining ourselves going back and forth :cheers:
Robert

I vote for a 351w or a LSX.


And the LSX is only a "equal" option $ wise with someone who is going to buy a k-member/engine management/etc. Most "built" cars buy what is necessary to swap it in....so really there is no extra cost compared to staying with ford. Especially if you have a 96-04 cause then you dont need a new k-member. Only thing is if you are a "ford in ford, gm in gm" kinda guy.


More than 1 way to skin a cat!
Does the LS engine bolt in with any standard aftermarket K-member? Two thoughts on that, unless it does. 1, you ain't simply swapping back to Ford power without adding more money. 2, many people buy a rolling chassis which already has an aftermarket version in it.

You'll also still have to spend more on whatever will be needed to do the changeover for any Mustang because almost none of the electronics will match up or be easily matched.

To build either engine for power won't take much, but I'm not aware of better replacement LS series heads than what can be found for the 351W. Also, it seems to me a good set for the LS is more expensive than the Ford. Cams are about the same, as are intakes(I suspect-never bought an intake for an LS). I did a look up on TFS heads for each and the 302/351 heads cost 200 less(in high end R form), BUT... the LS version is not a direct replacement for the LS1. You'll need at least a 4.030 bore. For the 351, mine were a direct bolt on. Flow isn't enough for me. It also needs velocity and excellent characteristics for longevity.

Then there's the whole transmission adaptation issue. You'll have to spend for that with any LS, but not with the 351. If you us a GM trans, the mount will have to be modified or replaced along with the possible need for inside changes(to go along with all the wiring and maybe even gauge changes). If you use a Ford transmission, you'll need an adapter plate, a new speedometer connection/cable. I've actually done this before, using a GM transmission in my Ford. It was a JOB, believe me. Had to fab the mount, pay a real fabricator to adapt my flexplate, replace and adapt my D/S, build and install an adapter plate and figure out what to do for my speedo cable. Took me about 20hrs to complete the job... over the course of several days. Oh, and I also needed a spacer for the converter to flexplate mounting point, which wasn't cheap because it had to be CNC milled of billet aluminum. At least my transmission was strong! :D

If drag racing is your thing, I simply don't think the LS has produced the results of a 351W build or the 4.6/5.4. Actually, I'm certain no LS Camaro(let alone Mustang, which surely isn't the quickest LS car out there) having run the numbers of the three Ford power plants. The Fords have seen at least 6.60's for serious racing while the quickest LS car(an iron block) I've heard of/seen managed a 6.8x. I'm told the quickest 4.6 has gone 6.4's and the 5.4 has seen a 6.19... Donno what the quickest 351W build has done, but I'm betting it's at least in the .50's.

On the other hand, if you want a decent runner and to be different, the LS is fine with me. I won't do it, but I don't care if others do.

Regarding what motorcycle engines are doing... A different animal entirely. They have RPM... End of story on that.
 
Are you building a 6 second car? Im not. Nor do i have plans to. Im referring to applications where your goal is 400-500rwhp.

A cross member for the trans is no different than what you have to do when you get into aftermarket stuff for a ford. Why you would make it harder on yourself to mix the gm engine and ford trans i have no idea.

Look up the GM L92 heads. They are factory heads. Then find me a set of 351w heads that match them. My entire point of the conversation is that these motors are available in the junkyard. So discussing aftermarket prices has no place here. You can buy an entire engine with those L92 heads for the cost of just the cylinder heads for a 351.


Again, 99.9% of the members on this forum, and every other mustang forum, arent shooting to build a car that runs 6s. If that is your goal then seriously, talking about sub $5,000 engine builds is pointless. The fastest car on this forum that im aware of is Chris (4Jenna) who is shooting for a 9.11 pass i believe. You keep bringing up these incredibly fast times in a 1/4 mile that hasnt been done by a LS motor...which you may be right. But thats not the aspect of the swap im talking about. If you have a car that runs 6's....nothing about it will be factory.

Keep it relative to what guys are actually trying to do. Not just looking in the record books for who is fastest.
 
I don't know about what they're doing today, but through an AOD, I got 502rwhp and had about 630 at the flywheel. Obviously I had a much larger loss through drive train.

There's already been a new 5.0 at 435rwhp from what I've read. I just don't see another 65 being that big a deal considering all factory components beneath the VC's were used. Someone will do it and I'd almost bet cash it will happen before the year is out.

If our goal is only 500rwhp, I do believe a new 5.0 will soon be there, leaving no reason to swap from it and... Maybe swap TO it in an older Mustang. Drivability isn't likely to be an issue, even N/A. :shrug: