springs
- Thread starter fdv91
- Start date
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Eibach pro kit
I do not like the rough ride now. I am putting the stock springs back in.
Not sure if it is all the springs since I have steeda full length sub frame connectors, adjustable rear tubular lower and upper control arms and MM caster camber plates. Car is tight on corner but hell everywhere except free way. I thing it would be good road racer but not fun on street.
Comments welcome. PS. My son took has his stock convertible springs which I am planning on puttion on my hatch.
I do not like the rough ride now. I am putting the stock springs back in.
Not sure if it is all the springs since I have steeda full length sub frame connectors, adjustable rear tubular lower and upper control arms and MM caster camber plates. Car is tight on corner but hell everywhere except free way. I thing it would be good road racer but not fun on street.
Comments welcome. PS. My son took has his stock convertible springs which I am planning on puttion on my hatch.
stang&2Birds
Founding Member
A few things:
1) Use the classifieds for "Want to Buy" or selling parts!!!
2) Automotive springs (since the ~40's) do NOT sag - period! Don't listen to clueless people repeating interweb ricer BS. However, springs do break. And, isolators do compress and deteriorate! The compression of the isolators, and the spring settling into the isolators is why people report "new springs settling".
3) It can be very Very VERY hard to get stock springs. I know! Ordering form a general salvage place over the web is very risky. The do NOT know if the springs were cut, or replaced. Heck, the springs could have been replaced by Ford OEM Bullitt springs, and therefore still look 100% like Ford OEM.
4) I strongly suggest that you only get stock springs via the classifieds. Either here or on the "other stang site"
5) Before you buy the springs, get pictures. Ask to see the bottom (big) part up close. Ask for the height of the springs. Ask to get a picture of the springs where you can see the number of coils! The height of the unloaded coils will vary by ~0.10". That will make ZERO difference in the installed height! Again, be careful of the very simplistic description of coils on the interweb. The descriptions are good to get an idea of how coils work. People don't have the time, nor desire, to get very deep into coil theory or design. From an engineering or design point of view, the equations you read on the interweb are are totally worthless and a joke.
6) The stock height of a Fox GT front coil is ~2.3" +/-~0.10". I forget the number of coils.
7) Note that the fox and n95 GTs are already a lowered chassis! Don't fall for the ricer BS of "4x4 look" or stance that many clueless people post in the forums.
8) You can not buy new stock GT springs. And, they can be hard/impossible to get at a local salvage yard. However, the sn95 GT springs will work fine. Just stay with the stock upper isolators (now compressed) to keep the ride height close to the original ride height as the car came from the factory.
9) PPI should have some stock Fox GT springs. But, I still wonder if they are good enough to filter out the cut and replaced springs. Also, they are not cheap.
http://www.performancepartsinc.com/suspension_79_93.html
1987-93 We have a large selection of new take-off original equipment front and rear spring sets for 5.0L Mustangs!, new take-off Price: CALL
10) Shipping for springs will not be cheap. They are heavy.
If you want a firmer ride for better handling, they you should go with the Mach1 or Bullit springs. IMHO, most other springs (not counting MM springs) are ricer springs. The spring rate is far too low for the drop. In real life, the stock Fox/sn95 chassis has many issues when lowered more than 1".
If you want better handling, without much drop (good for verts and 4-eyes), go with the Mach1 springs and the Steeda 1/4" spacers (can be ordered by phone) like I did. Note that the ride is noticeable harsher with the Mach1 or Bullit 600lbs/in springs.
And, yes, I put my money, my rep, and my engineering knowledge where my mouth is:
Mustang 86 - Mach1 Springs
I hope the above helps.
Good Luck!
1) Use the classifieds for "Want to Buy" or selling parts!!!
2) Automotive springs (since the ~40's) do NOT sag - period! Don't listen to clueless people repeating interweb ricer BS. However, springs do break. And, isolators do compress and deteriorate! The compression of the isolators, and the spring settling into the isolators is why people report "new springs settling".
3) It can be very Very VERY hard to get stock springs. I know! Ordering form a general salvage place over the web is very risky. The do NOT know if the springs were cut, or replaced. Heck, the springs could have been replaced by Ford OEM Bullitt springs, and therefore still look 100% like Ford OEM.
4) I strongly suggest that you only get stock springs via the classifieds. Either here or on the "other stang site"
5) Before you buy the springs, get pictures. Ask to see the bottom (big) part up close. Ask for the height of the springs. Ask to get a picture of the springs where you can see the number of coils! The height of the unloaded coils will vary by ~0.10". That will make ZERO difference in the installed height! Again, be careful of the very simplistic description of coils on the interweb. The descriptions are good to get an idea of how coils work. People don't have the time, nor desire, to get very deep into coil theory or design. From an engineering or design point of view, the equations you read on the interweb are are totally worthless and a joke.
6) The stock height of a Fox GT front coil is ~2.3" +/-~0.10". I forget the number of coils.
7) Note that the fox and n95 GTs are already a lowered chassis! Don't fall for the ricer BS of "4x4 look" or stance that many clueless people post in the forums.
8) You can not buy new stock GT springs. And, they can be hard/impossible to get at a local salvage yard. However, the sn95 GT springs will work fine. Just stay with the stock upper isolators (now compressed) to keep the ride height close to the original ride height as the car came from the factory.
9) PPI should have some stock Fox GT springs. But, I still wonder if they are good enough to filter out the cut and replaced springs. Also, they are not cheap.
http://www.performancepartsinc.com/suspension_79_93.html
1987-93 We have a large selection of new take-off original equipment front and rear spring sets for 5.0L Mustangs!, new take-off Price: CALL
10) Shipping for springs will not be cheap. They are heavy.
If you want a firmer ride for better handling, they you should go with the Mach1 or Bullit springs. IMHO, most other springs (not counting MM springs) are ricer springs. The spring rate is far too low for the drop. In real life, the stock Fox/sn95 chassis has many issues when lowered more than 1".
If you want better handling, without much drop (good for verts and 4-eyes), go with the Mach1 springs and the Steeda 1/4" spacers (can be ordered by phone) like I did. Note that the ride is noticeable harsher with the Mach1 or Bullit 600lbs/in springs.
And, yes, I put my money, my rep, and my engineering knowledge where my mouth is:
Mustang 86 - Mach1 Springs
I hope the above helps.
Good Luck!
the pony boy
Founding Member
the rough ride is a p.i.a. but the handling of a lowered car is alot better.i have the prokit on my notch and c-springs on my hatch.the pro kit is a little lower and rides like crap over rough roads but i dont have many potholes up here so i love it.i heard good things about the bullit stuff and i would have done it if i didnt get such a smoking deal on the c-springs and stuf for my hatch. good luck phil
skunk21
Active Member
I have '01 Bullitt springs. slight drop over stock, handles better , the ride is firmer but not killer..love them 
Suspension springs
Also have a stock 1990 GT Hatch and like the ride and has acceptable handling that goes with it. Even my son complained about the 1988 GT ride on the rough streets (and that suprised me). In 1968 did not buy a used 1965 GT350 and even then did not like the ride either, bought a used 64 GTO instead and liked the ride and other creature comforts.
I will be putting the Eibachs on Ebay/craiglist.
Thanks for all replies
Also have a stock 1990 GT Hatch and like the ride and has acceptable handling that goes with it. Even my son complained about the 1988 GT ride on the rough streets (and that suprised me). In 1968 did not buy a used 1965 GT350 and even then did not like the ride either, bought a used 64 GTO instead and liked the ride and other creature comforts.
I will be putting the Eibachs on Ebay/craiglist.
Thanks for all replies
The Eibach Sportlines are very harsh with a more extreme drop. I'm surprised that people aren't happy with the Eibach Pro-kit. Less drop and they are progressive rate so they still ride nice.
Lets get real folks, Fox Mustangs aren't Cadillacs. They aren't known for ride quality. They ride rough and if you swap for more aggresive springs, ride quality will suffer even more. You gotta love it for what it is.
I have to disagree with the comment made above that springs don't sag. Springs do sag in time.
A prime example:
It has been a well known fact for some time in the Saleen community that The Racecraft springs used on the foxbody Saleens do sag mainly in the rear with age. After 15-20 years it has become quite an epidemic. The rears on my SSC sagged over the years so I had to replace them. I went with the Eibach pro-kit. I know of many other Saleen owners that have delt with this same issue and have replaced their springs. Many of these are low miles museum quality cars. It seems to be a gravity issue and not neccesarily miles.
It has been quite the topic of discussion on the SCOA forums for a few years.
No, I'm not an engineer. I gain my knowledge from my own experience and the experiences of my friends with Saleens with the same issues.
Good Luck
Lets get real folks, Fox Mustangs aren't Cadillacs. They aren't known for ride quality. They ride rough and if you swap for more aggresive springs, ride quality will suffer even more. You gotta love it for what it is.
I have to disagree with the comment made above that springs don't sag. Springs do sag in time.
A prime example:
It has been a well known fact for some time in the Saleen community that The Racecraft springs used on the foxbody Saleens do sag mainly in the rear with age. After 15-20 years it has become quite an epidemic. The rears on my SSC sagged over the years so I had to replace them. I went with the Eibach pro-kit. I know of many other Saleen owners that have delt with this same issue and have replaced their springs. Many of these are low miles museum quality cars. It seems to be a gravity issue and not neccesarily miles.
It has been quite the topic of discussion on the SCOA forums for a few years.
No, I'm not an engineer. I gain my knowledge from my own experience and the experiences of my friends with Saleens with the same issues.
Good Luck
I do not want to blame the Eibach pro kit springs as do not know if that is the sole cause. Combination of adjustable upper lower control amrs with rod ends on the front side KYB adjustubles with most loose settings and maximum motorsport caster camber plate in front all contribute to ride.
My question: What is the ride quality difference betwee a stock mustang fox GT compared to Fox GT with only suspension change being pro kit springs. Also must consider profile of tires being similar as well.
I do not recall since changed them all at once.
Comments appreciated
My question: What is the ride quality difference betwee a stock mustang fox GT compared to Fox GT with only suspension change being pro kit springs. Also must consider profile of tires being similar as well.
I do not recall since changed them all at once.
Comments appreciated
stang&2Birds
Founding Member
Thanks, that is interesting info about Racecraft springs!
I don't know how Racecraft makes their springs.
As I've read, Eibach makes quailty springs that meet or exceed what OEMs make. That's one reason why Ford went with Eibach for the very limited edition 95 Cobra R springs.
I would not be at all surprised if Racecraft, true race springs, specialty springs, ebay springs, or parts store springs had issues like sagging and premature breaking.
Since the OP asked specifically about returning to the stock Ford Stang GT springs, I was referring specifically to mass-production OEM consumer vehicle coil springs - in other words typical Ford/GM/Toyota/etc coil springs in a non coil-over application. I hope I was specific enough now.
Progressive rate springs are also harder to manufacture and take more care and knowledge about material science to get the springs correct. For the big OEMs, it's no problem to invest in the machines and engineering needed - it's not that big when pro-rated over the number of those springs that are produced.
Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised many Saleen owners would get upset if the left front was 0.1" lower than the right front. In reality, most owners for tuner cars buy them as status symbols, or for investment. Sigh. Most people don't have an idea about what's really involved in tweaking front fender height to those tolerances in a non coil-over setup. The quickest, and often used by many race teams, way to do that is to heat up the coil springs with a torch :O and expand/compress the spring as needed. Just check any race suspension book to verify that practice.
About torching springs to fine tune the ride height, if someone torches a spring to extend or compress the spring, then they are screwing around with the basic makeup of a spring. If someone takes a torch to a 100MPH-rated tire, I wouldn't expect that tire to last/perform like a stock tire. The same is true when people take torches to metal, or springs.
BTW I do not know, nor do I think, that Saleen torches springs to adjust the height.
"True full race" cars, do not use regular OEM-type coil springs. Like with drilled rotors, something that makes sense for a pure race application, is foolish for a street/consumer application.
Also, again, I have to ask, is it the springs, or the isolators that are causing the drop? Isolators do compress and deteriorate over age. In most Foxes, the lower isolators are toast and can't be reused without them falling apart. In snow States, the lower isolators are likely worn/eaten away.
I still hold to my statement that any automotive OEM consumer vehicle coil spring should last far longer than any person that buys the original vehicle. I will qualify the previous statement by saying with the possible exception of the new coil over setups - I'm not familiar enough with that type of spring type and length verses rate along with the current low cost and weight manufacturing techniques that are being used.
As I've mentioned in many other posts, any decent university should have at least one machine that could check the spring rate of a typical automotive spring. Checking a used 10 year old Buillit spring with over 200K miles verses a brand new, from Ford, spring would show very little difference.
And, yes, like anything, some bad parts and batches do get made. I know that very well from my GM cars and the inconsistent quailty of the metal they use for bodies. So, if 1 million springs with 200K miles were checked, I wouldn't be surprised if a bad one did show up (an ~ 0.0001% chance) . If people think they have an ~1 in 1 million bad spring, then they may want to play Lotto.
Also, knowing the exact dimensions of the current tires, and the inflation in each tire, also make a difference. Tires will also "sag/droop" over age. It's worse for low profile tires. Manufactures and Race teams use solid supports instead of tires for chassis and suspension verification.
Again, I'm talking about OEM springs. I make no claims at all about any race springs (quarter mile, or handling), or parts store/ebay spring. Nor, am I talking about leaf springs - which are notorious for sag and are clearly not coil springs.
So, maybe Racecraft and other non OEM suppliers do have issues with springs in the way they make them and/or the materials used? There is very real material science involved in the making, heating, and curing of springs. FWIW, as I've read, Eibach makes quailty springs that meet or exceed what OEMs make. That's one reason why Ford went with Eibach for the very limited edition 95 Cobra R springs.
Last, do not take my word for it. Go to any shopping mall. Check out the tons of 20+ year old cars (in stock shape, of course). You will not see them looking like low-riding ricer's cars. Approx a billion Toyotas, approx a billion Fords, approx a billion GMs, verses a small handful of Saleen cars (?~500?) with race made specialty components. Guess where I put my basis for my statements.
I don't know how Racecraft makes their springs.
As I've read, Eibach makes quailty springs that meet or exceed what OEMs make. That's one reason why Ford went with Eibach for the very limited edition 95 Cobra R springs.
I would not be at all surprised if Racecraft, true race springs, specialty springs, ebay springs, or parts store springs had issues like sagging and premature breaking.
Since the OP asked specifically about returning to the stock Ford Stang GT springs, I was referring specifically to mass-production OEM consumer vehicle coil springs - in other words typical Ford/GM/Toyota/etc coil springs in a non coil-over application. I hope I was specific enough now.
Progressive rate springs are also harder to manufacture and take more care and knowledge about material science to get the springs correct. For the big OEMs, it's no problem to invest in the machines and engineering needed - it's not that big when pro-rated over the number of those springs that are produced.
Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised many Saleen owners would get upset if the left front was 0.1" lower than the right front. In reality, most owners for tuner cars buy them as status symbols, or for investment. Sigh. Most people don't have an idea about what's really involved in tweaking front fender height to those tolerances in a non coil-over setup. The quickest, and often used by many race teams, way to do that is to heat up the coil springs with a torch :O and expand/compress the spring as needed. Just check any race suspension book to verify that practice.
About torching springs to fine tune the ride height, if someone torches a spring to extend or compress the spring, then they are screwing around with the basic makeup of a spring. If someone takes a torch to a 100MPH-rated tire, I wouldn't expect that tire to last/perform like a stock tire. The same is true when people take torches to metal, or springs.
BTW I do not know, nor do I think, that Saleen torches springs to adjust the height.
"True full race" cars, do not use regular OEM-type coil springs. Like with drilled rotors, something that makes sense for a pure race application, is foolish for a street/consumer application.
Also, again, I have to ask, is it the springs, or the isolators that are causing the drop? Isolators do compress and deteriorate over age. In most Foxes, the lower isolators are toast and can't be reused without them falling apart. In snow States, the lower isolators are likely worn/eaten away.
I still hold to my statement that any automotive OEM consumer vehicle coil spring should last far longer than any person that buys the original vehicle. I will qualify the previous statement by saying with the possible exception of the new coil over setups - I'm not familiar enough with that type of spring type and length verses rate along with the current low cost and weight manufacturing techniques that are being used.
As I've mentioned in many other posts, any decent university should have at least one machine that could check the spring rate of a typical automotive spring. Checking a used 10 year old Buillit spring with over 200K miles verses a brand new, from Ford, spring would show very little difference.
And, yes, like anything, some bad parts and batches do get made. I know that very well from my GM cars and the inconsistent quailty of the metal they use for bodies. So, if 1 million springs with 200K miles were checked, I wouldn't be surprised if a bad one did show up (an ~ 0.0001% chance) . If people think they have an ~1 in 1 million bad spring, then they may want to play Lotto.
Also, knowing the exact dimensions of the current tires, and the inflation in each tire, also make a difference. Tires will also "sag/droop" over age. It's worse for low profile tires. Manufactures and Race teams use solid supports instead of tires for chassis and suspension verification.
Again, I'm talking about OEM springs. I make no claims at all about any race springs (quarter mile, or handling), or parts store/ebay spring. Nor, am I talking about leaf springs - which are notorious for sag and are clearly not coil springs.
So, maybe Racecraft and other non OEM suppliers do have issues with springs in the way they make them and/or the materials used? There is very real material science involved in the making, heating, and curing of springs. FWIW, as I've read, Eibach makes quailty springs that meet or exceed what OEMs make. That's one reason why Ford went with Eibach for the very limited edition 95 Cobra R springs.
Last, do not take my word for it. Go to any shopping mall. Check out the tons of 20+ year old cars (in stock shape, of course
). You will not see them looking like low-riding ricer's cars. Approx a billion Toyotas, approx a billion Fords, approx a billion GMs, verses a small handful of Saleen cars (?~500?) with race made specialty components. Guess where I put my basis for my statements. Similar threads
