Watch out Europe... here comes the new 5.0 (M3 vs 5.0)

[brycerichert]

I'm all onboard and in agreement for the dollar per quality metric.... that is one of the large benefits of this 5.0... I can't believe that you can get this LOADED for less than 40K... just unbelievable.

 

[stangdude2000]

Here's an interesting question to pose - many of you think the M3 isn't worth the extra $20-25k it costs over the 5.0 since they perform nearly identically. It is a completely fair point - everyone values those extras different and for some it will be worth it, for some it won't.

Now let's throw the 2010 GT500 into the equation. The same magazine tested the GT500 (granted, different days, tracks, conditions, etc.) to be SLOWER 0-60 (it came in at 4.7 seconds), tied the 5.0 in the quarter mile (but a 7 mph faster trap speed), takes longer to stop 60-0 and pulls the same lateral g's. They did claim acceleration was traction limited due to conditions, but Road and Track testing numbers that basically matched the 5.0. By the same logic, do you think the GT500 is "worth it" since there is nearly no performance difference there either and it costs $50k+? Keep in mind, unlike with the M3, you really don't get any extra creature comforts...

 

[Kurt_OH]

Here's an interesting question to pose - many of you think the M3 isn't worth the extra $20-25k it costs over the 5.0 since they perform nearly identically. It is a completely fair point - everyone values those extras different and for some it will be worth it, for some it won't.

Now let's throw the 2010 GT500 into the equation. The same magazine tested the GT500 (granted, different days, tracks, conditions, etc.) to be SLOWER 0-60 (it came in at 4.7 seconds), tied the 5.0 in the quarter mile (but a 7 mph faster trap speed), takes longer to stop 60-0 and pulls the same lateral g's. They did claim acceleration was traction limited due to conditions, but Road and Track testing numbers that basically matched the 5.0. By the same logic, do you think the GT500 is "worth it" since there is nearly no performance difference there either and it costs $50k+? Keep in mind, unlike with the M3, you really don't get any extra creature comforts...

Interesting point. I didn't realize the GT500 had essentially the same interior (except recaro seats, right?). I figured they softened/upscaled/leathered/pimped out the GT500 so that it was a "Lincoln" on the inside. Guess not.

 

[fiveohwblow]

My '99 bimmer is years ahead of my 2011 5.0 as far as suspension fit and finish inside and general "feeling". Sometimes you are in a bimmer mood and sometimes one is in a Mustang mood. Hands down the M3 is better than the 5.0, it just depends on what mood you are in when you step into the garage in the AM.

I am with all the other Bimmer owners in here. I couldnt have said it better than 2000stangdude either. All of those things are out of this world. I have purchased a 330i for my wife, and when we had twins an x5. I purchased an E36 for myself as a daily driver and LOVE it. I also have my supercharged stang and agree with above statement. I have stang days where nothing beats it, and bimmer days. I am fortunate enough to have both, and will surely pick up the match to my SVT Focus and purchase the Competition Orange Boss when I can.

 

[kyle_99gt]

well if i could afford the m3 id get it over the stang, if i could afford both id probably get both lol. Most people can't afford to spend the 70k or so on the m3 and a 30k stang will do just fine when it can keep up. Man i want a 5.0 lol.

 

[Panzer]

This 2011 GT is my first mustang ever. I traded a BMW e46 330 in on it.

The mustang wasn't even on my radar, but I had to unload that 330 before I got so frustrated I drove it into a wall. The guy I buy trucks from convinced me to drive the new GT. I did it just to get him to shut up. After that first drive I was hooked.

I will not ever buy another BMW. My ownership experience was nothing short of miserable. People don't believe me when I recount the list of things that broke, and that's ok. Every make has their fanboys and BMW fanboys are some of the thinnest-skinned I've met. Maybe in the e30 years and even the e36 series may have been something special, but the e46 I had was junk.

The only thing I can say nice about BMW was their service was good. Well practiced, too, as I got very familiar with the people. Friendly, professional, and extremely busy people. Hell I was in there every month. Eleven times in the last 18 months of ownership, in fact. The car was literally falling apart. It was a challenge to get it decent enough to trade off before something new would brake.

Thankfully they had a great coffee machine and a generous loaner car program. I put thousands of miles on their loaner cars. Thousands. That came in handy when I traded in that "low mileage" 330.

For me, the GT>M3 seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Had my 330 not been a complete pile I would have been in the market for an M3 this time around. Had the 5.0 not come out yet I wouldn't have gone GT either, but at this point I'm glad I did.

I used to think BMWs were good cars. Then I bought one. I learned my lesosn the hard way. Junk.

 

[Kurt_OH]

This is the most incredibly polite, reasonable discussion I've ever seen in a "VS" thread on any specific make's fans' site.

Kudos to you all.

How long post-release before Boss is available at MSRP? Ever?

 

[fiveohwblow]

Funny you say that, I was just thinking that it has been civil considering I have been called thin skinned and a prick because I own a BMW, well actually 2

We had an e46 330i and didnt have a single issue from 40k to 115k. Wife even wrecked it with 12k in damage and it kept on trucking, quite well. Sorry you got a bad one Panzer, and I can guarantee if you met me youd have NO CLUE I owned BMW's. I dont fit the typical "prick" you all seem to envision.

 

[Kurt_OH]

This 2011 GT is my first mustang ever. I traded a BMW e46 330 in on it.

The mustang wasn't even on my radar, but I had to unload that 330 before I got so frustrated I drove it into a wall. The guy I buy trucks from convinced me to drive the new GT. I did it just to get him to shut up. After that first drive I was hooked.

I will not ever buy another BMW. My ownership experience was nothing short of miserable. People don't believe me when I recount the list of things that broke, and that's ok. Every make has their fanboys and BMW fanboys are some of the thinnest-skinned I've met. Maybe in the e30 years and even the e36 series may have been something special, but the e46 I had was junk.

The only thing I can say nice about BMW was their service was good. Well practiced, too, as I got very familiar with the people. Friendly, professional, and extremely busy people. Hell I was in there every month. Eleven times in the last 18 months of ownership, in fact. The car was literally falling apart. It was a challenge to get it decent enough to trade off before something new would brake.

Thankfully they had a great coffee machine and a generous loaner car program. I put thousands of miles on their loaner cars. Thousands. That came in handy when I traded in that "low mileage" 330.

For me, the GT>M3 seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Had my 330 not been a complete pile I would have been in the market for an M3 this time around. Had the 5.0 not come out yet I wouldn't have gone GT either, but at this point I'm glad I did.

I used to think BMWs were good cars. Then I bought one. I learned my lesosn the hard way. Junk.

In 1991 I bought a new Mustang GT. I loved it - thought it was a great, fun car. For a few months until the problems started. I averaged about a visit per month to the dealer from month 4 thru 18 of ownership. Brakes, windshield wiper motors, power window motors, 5th gear, then 2nd gear went out of the transmission, radio failed repeatedly. It was honestly a piece of crap. I had to get rid of it so that I could get to work consistently. Traded it on a Jeep Grand Cherokee - which never gave me a speck of problem. In fact, of all the new cars I've purchased (nissan, chevy, ford, jeep, bmw, hyundai), that Mustang is the only one that ever gave me significant problems.

I'm considering giving them another chance.

 

[stangdude2000]

Cars are always a crap shoot. You can get the most reliable car (reputation wise) and it can sit in the shop every other week, while your neighbor can have the worst (based on reputation) and never have an issue. It's mostly luck.

I've been lucky in general with cars. My first mustang never had a mechanical issue in the 7 years (but only 30k miles) I owned it. My second one had to go to the shop once - about 3k miles in - because an oil gasket was bad, but it wasn't a major fix at all. My BMW has never had a mechanical issue (knock on wood), and neither have any of my parents. One of my friends owns a 2000 Dinan 540i, and he does have problems with it. Not frequently, but enough to be annoying. As I said... mostly luck.

 

[FNG 2001]

In 1991 I bought a new Mustang GT. I loved it - thought it was a great, fun car. For a few months until the problems started. I averaged about a visit per month to the dealer from month 4 thru 18 of ownership. Brakes, windshield wiper motors, power window motors, 5th gear, then 2nd gear went out of the transmission, radio failed repeatedly. It was honestly a piece of crap. I had to get rid of it so that I could get to work consistently. Traded it on a Jeep Grand Cherokee - which never gave me a speck of problem. In fact, of all the new cars I've purchased (nissan, chevy, ford, jeep, bmw, hyundai), that Mustang is the only one that ever gave me significant problems.

I'm considering giving them another chance.

Kurt- That was 20 years ago. The New Orleans Saints were a lousy football team in 1991 too.

 

[Kurt_OH]

Kurt- That was 20 years ago. The New Orleans Saints were a lousy football team in 1991 too.

My comment was directed to the guy claiming all BMWs are "junk" because of the problems he had.

When something like what he described or I described happens, it DOES affect your impression of the company.

Anyway, I'm not going to drone endlessly about my love for BMWs. They're fantastic cars, easily worth the price of entry if you can afford it.

But back to my interest: I'd consider a Boss 302, along with some BMWs, for my next car. I'll have to see who's dealing and what my mindset is at the time of purchase.

The article did point out the impressive performance of the new 5.0 though. Great job by Ford. I absolutely agree it's a great value.

Prior to seeing that article, I'd have been surprised if a major car magazine proclaimed that GT500 could hang with M3 on a road course, much less a standard GT. WOW!

 

[brycerichert]

Both cars (as of 2011) are great cars.... just different personalities. Would I drive all day long in the Mustang and not think about the BMW? No. On the otherside, can I drive the BMW all day long and not think about the Mustang? No. Just different animials with different moods. I couldn't have made this statement pre-2011 though, unfortunately. It's a great time to love power and comfort!

 

[mjk]

Interesting point. I didn't realize the GT500 had essentially the same interior (except recaro seats, right?). I figured they softened/upscaled/leathered/pimped out the GT500 so that it was a "Lincoln" on the inside. Guess not.

If I could only have one, I would take a gt500. With a blower kit and sticky tires, it's a 9/10 second car. The m3 would never get there with a stock drive-train, but then again it wasn't built for the drag strip. With sticky tires alone, the stock gt500 runs mid 11s. The car is very traction limited. I'm surprised that ford still hasn't given the shelby proper tires. The shelby also looks great, but so does the boss. THe m3 IMO offers little competition in the looks department.
If I wanted a performance/lux coupe, I'd probably choose, an m6, maybe a gtr. The m3 doesnt look like much to me, but it is basically a souped up 3-series. Looks are subjective and obviously people choose their cars for different reasons.

The Germans surely do make good luxury cars and I am not trying to argue against that point.

 

[Kurt_OH]

If I could only have one, I would take a gt500. With a blower kit and sticky tires, it's a 9/10 second car. The m3 would never get there with a stock drive-train, but then again it wasn't built for the drag strip. With sticky tires alone, the stock gt500 runs mid 11s. The car is very traction limited. I'm surprised that ford still hasn't given the shelby proper tires. The shelby also looks great, but so does the boss. THe m3 IMO offers little competition in the looks department.
If I wanted a performance/lux coupe, I'd probably choose, an m6, maybe a gtr. The m3 doesnt look like much to me, but it is basically a souped up 3-series. Looks are subjective and obviously people choose their cars for different reasons.

The Germans surely do make good luxury cars and I am not trying to argue against that point.

If you only care about straight line speed, very few cars, including Ferrari, Lambo, etc., can hang with M5/6. But on a road course, M3 is tops of BMWs.

GTR does not appeal to me. It's ugly and coarse. I'd take GT500 and my $25k savings and be very happy. Or, I'd buy a Z06 or one year old 911 C2S. Anyway, a $75k Nissan doesn't appeal to me.

As for appearance of M3; I agree - it's a fancy 3 series. Which is to say an improvement upon a quite successful car, while still being understated.

But, we clearly have divergent interests. EITHER car is plenty fast in a straight line - if my car can throw down mid/high 12s, that's fine. It's the handling/braking/top speed/sustained track work that is of interest to me for performance. I'd expect that VERY few cars, and other than 'vette, none American, can even come close to M3 for 20 laps on a road course.

Anyway, I'm still hoping to get a reasonably priced Boss in Summer 2011 . . .

 

[oregon97gt]

If you only care about straight line speed, very few cars, including Ferrari, Lambo, etc., can hang with M5/6.

If you mean pre-2000 Ferraris and Lambos (maybe earlier) I'd agree, otherwise you can't be serious. Just because they have 500hp doesn't cancel out the fact they weigh 4000lbs.

 

[Kurt_OH]

If you mean pre-2000 Ferraris and Lambos (maybe earlier) I'd agree, otherwise you can't be serious. Just because they have 500hp doesn't cancel out the fact they weigh 4000lbs.

Both the M5 and M6 have (with removed top speed limitation) over 200mph.

That's about where an F430 and yea, Lambos too, top out.

 

[oregon97gt]

Both the M5 and M6 have (with removed top speed limitation) over 200mph.

That's about where an F430 and yea, Lambos too, top out.

Just because the gearing allows for it doesn't mean they go that fast.

 

[Kurt_OH]

Just because the gearing allows for it doesn't mean they go that fast.

Yup, I agree - not talking about gears. I'm talking about actual proven performance.


M5 isn't quite as fast as M6, but an easy Youtube search, just taking results off the first page of results for "M5 top speed":

YouTube - 2008 BMW M5 Top Speed Run 211mph!

YouTube - BMW M5 top speed 330 km/h

YouTube - bmw m5 2008 topspeed

YouTube - BMW M5 E60 Autobahn top speed

All >= 204mph indicated. One at 211. I'll grant there could be a difference between indicated and actual, but there's no doubt both M5 and M6 can exceed 200mph stock, except for removal of electronic speed limitation.

BMW builds absolutely, undeniably incredible engines. That's why they OWN the International Engine of the Year awards, year after year.

But this is a Mustang site. I think the Boss engine has a shot at Engine of the Year. I hope so - that would be great for Ford and the USA.

 

[GusinCA]

I asked my wife the other day, "honey, do you know why the dual zone computerized climate control system in our Mustang will never break?"
"Why"
"Because it doesn't have one"...

I've owned lots of Benz's and 2 Beemers. After the warranty runs out you better have the money for the repair bills.
No question, the little details and quality of the German machines are better, but 1.) You pay for it in the beginning and 2.) You pay for the 60-way adjustable seat motor when it fails...