The reason I was concerned about that, is because back in high school one of my I6 spindles broke off for no real apparent reason after hitting a dip in the road a little hard. Back when I got the Granada stuff, I did not realize that beefier stock type spindles were available.
Disc Brake Conversion
- Thread starter ChiZ_65
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The reason I was concerned about that, is because back in high school one of my I6 spindles broke off for no real apparent reason after hitting a dip in the road a little hard. Back when I got the Granada stuff, I did not realize that beefier stock type spindles were available.
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The 64-66 V8 spindle is WAY beefier than the 64-66 I6 spindle.
I swerved my 66 I6 to miss an old lady who ran a stop sign with one, spun into the curb, jammed the front wheel hard, bent the wheel, car rose up with the other side off the ground. Put the spare on, drove another 30,000 miles. I'm thinking your pothole was only the last straw from some PO who did a lot worse.
The usual problem with the early I6 is burning out the tiny outer bearing.
HDTony
Member
Thanks again for the advice guys. Mission complete. And way less expensive than I feared.
Big thanks to Dan @ Chockostang - I went with the 4 Piston K/H Disc breaks. Good call sir.
Big thanks to Dan @ Chockostang - I went with the 4 Piston K/H Disc breaks. Good call sir.
Rusty67
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
Well, time to throw my 2 cents in on it... even though it seems to be over.
I hate the Granada setup. They are a single piston floating caliper. That right there is enough for me to say no to Granada brakes on my car.
If you want a beefier spindle take a look at the later Mustang spindle, I believe 1970 and up. The spindle is stronger and the out tie rod is beefier as well (if memory serves). Using a drum spindle you can still bolt up the early K/H 4 piston brakes.
Dennis over at discbrakeswap.com is a forum member and has been helping people on here for a long time. He makes a good quality product and is a good guy. Also, his prices are fair.
I hate the Granada setup. They are a single piston floating caliper. That right there is enough for me to say no to Granada brakes on my car.
If you want a beefier spindle take a look at the later Mustang spindle, I believe 1970 and up. The spindle is stronger and the out tie rod is beefier as well (if memory serves). Using a drum spindle you can still bolt up the early K/H 4 piston brakes.
Dennis over at discbrakeswap.com is a forum member and has been helping people on here for a long time. He makes a good quality product and is a good guy. Also, his prices are fair.
ultrastang
Founding Member
The stock '68-'73 Mustang front disc brake setups were also of a single-piston, floating caliper design. The '68-'73 Mustang single-piston, floating caliper design was also produced by K/H. The '68-'73 Mustang disc spindles/brakes are very close cousins to the '75-'80 Granada/Monarch front disc brakes. The '68-'73 Mustang disc spindles share the same splash shield and caliper anchor bracket mounting point dimensions as a Granada. --with the exception that the upper caliper anchor bracket mounting hole on a '68-'73 disc spindle is for a 9/16" bolt and the upper hole on a Granada spindle is for a 1/2" diameter bolt. All other critical mounting points and overall dimensions remain the same between the '70-'73 Mustang disc spindles and the '75-'80 Granada spindles.
'68/'69 Mustang disc brake spindles had thinner pins and smaller outer tie rods than the '70-'73 disc brake Mustangs. '75-'80 Granadas have spindles with the thicker pins and larger tie rod holes like the '70-'73 Mustang disc spindles.
In photo below: On the left is a '73 Maverick drum brake spindle [same as '70-'73 Mustang drum brake spindle]. It features the larger spindle pin and larger outer tie rod hole. On the right: '75 Granada disc brake spindle. Same basic design as '68-'73 Mustang factory disc brake spindle except it too has the larger spindle pin and larger tie rod hole like a '70-'73 Mustang disc spindle.
'69 Boss 302s were the first to get the disc spindles [for the floating-caliper design] with the thicker pins and larger tie rod holes. Spindle pin and tie rod holes increased to the same larger dimension on regular-production Mustangs starting in 1970, --for both drum and disc brake-equipped Mustangs.
The '75-'80 Granadas share the same front end width and suspension geometry as the '67-'70 Mustangs. This is why Granada disc brake systems are a direct bolt-on to the '67-'70 Mustangs. They are not a direct bolt-on, if using wrecking yard Granada spindles, to '65/'66 Mustangs, due to the '65/'66 Mustang's 2" narrower track width.
--The steering arm angles of the Granada spindles will be off for a '65/'66 Mustang. This would be the same problem you would encounter if trying to use '67-'73 Mustang spindles [disc or drum] on a '65/'66 Mustang. The problem for the steering arm angle can be made to work on the '65/'66 Mustangs by shortening the tie rod adjuster sleaves and shortening the threaded length on both the inner & outer tie rods on both sides, but steering arm angle would still not be totally correct on a '65/'66.
However, there are [new] Granada spindle castings available to adapt Granada discs, to pre-'67 Mustangs, that have the correct steering arm geometry cast into them to alleviate the problem of trying to use incorrect-geometry wrecking yard Granada disc spindles on a '65/'66.
Recent installation of Granada discs I installed on a 6-cylinder [formerly 4-lug drum] '67 coupe.
Before:
After:
Stock '68-'73 Mustang floating-caliper front disc assemblies pictured below. Notice the similarities between these and the Granada disc brake system:
The stock '68-'73 Mustang front disc brake setups were also of a single-floating caliper design. The '68-'73 Mustang single-floating caliper design was also produced by K/H. The '68-'73 Mustang disc spindles/brakes are very close cousins to the '75-'80 Granada/Monarch front disc brakes. The '68-'73 Mustang disc spindles share the same splash shield and caliper anchor bracket mounting point dimensions as a Granada. --with the exception that the upper caliper anchor bracket mounting hole on a '68-'73 disc spindle is for a 9/16" bolt and the upper hole on a Granada spindle is for a 1/2" diameter bolt. All other critical mounting points and overall dimensions remain the same between the '70-'73 Mustang disc spindles and the '75-'80 Granada spindles.
'68/'69 Mustang disc brake spindles had thinner pins and smaller outer tie rods than the '70-'73 disc brake Mustangs. '75-'80 Granadas have spindles with the thicker pins and larger tie rod holes like the '70-'73 Mustang disc spindles.
In photo link below: On the left is a '73 Maverick drum brake spindle [same as '70-'73 Mustang drum brake spindle]. It features the larger spindle pin and larger outer tie rod hole. On the right: '75 Granada disc brake spindle. Same basic design as '68-'73 Mustang factory disc brake spindle except it too has the larger spindle pin and larger tie rod hole like a '70-'73 Mustang disc spindle.
'69 Boss 302s were the first to get the disc spindles [for the floating-caliper design] with the thicker pins and larger tie rod holes. Spindle pin and tie rod holes increased to the same larger dimension on regular-production Mustangs starting in 1970, --for both drum and disc brake-equipped Mustangs.
The '75-'80 Granadas share the same front end width and suspension geometry as the '67-'70 Mustangs. This is why Granada disc brake systems are a direct bolt-on to the '67-'70 Mustangs. They are not a direct bolt-on, if using wrecking yard Granada spindles, to '65/'66 Mustangs, due to the '65/'66 Mustang's 2" narrower track width.
--The steering arm angles of the Granada spindles will be off for a '65/'66 Mustang. This would be the same problem you would encounter if trying to use '67-'73 Mustang spindles [disc or drum] on a '65/'66 Mustang. The problem for the steering arm angle can be made to work on the '65/'66 Mustangs by shortening the tie rod adjuster sleaves and shortening the threaded length on both the inner & outer tie rods on both sides, but steering arm angle would still not be totally correct on a '65/'66.
However, there are [new] Granada spindle castings available to adapt Granada discs, to pre-'67 Mustangs, that have the correct steering arm geometry cast into them to alleviate the problem of trying to use incorrect-geometry wrecking yard Granada disc spindles on a '65/'66.
Recent installation of Granada discs I installed on a 6-cylinder [formerly 4-lug drum] '67 coupe.
Before:
After:
Stock '68-'73 Mustang floating-caliper front disc assemblies pictured below. Notice the similarities between these and the Granada disc brake system:
Intersting and appreciated to many, you show the last picture with the bigger 68-73 Mustang rotors, and the correct hubs that fit the Mustang, not the Granada.
Dan @ Chockostang
HDTony
Member
ultrastang
Founding Member
The caption above the last picture in my previous post states that those brakes are for a '68-'73 Mustang and to compare the similarities between them and the Granada disc design.
The rotors of the factory '68-'73 Mustang floating-caliper brake system are "bigger" than the rotors of the Granada disc brake system, but are not significantly "bigger".
The stock '68-'73 discs are 11-19/64" in diameter [11.296875"]. The Granada discs are 11-1/32" [11.03125]. This is only a tick over 1/4" difference between the two. --not exactly an amount of major proportions. 11.296875 - 11.03125 = 0.265625" --only 17/64" difference between the two.
Most people who are converting their older Mustangs to discs have no intentions of running their stock, skinny, factory wheels and tires, anyway. Wider/taller aftermarket wheels have no problems fitting over the Granada rotor's hub. For the very small percentage of people who would retain their skinny, stock wheels/tires, the Granada hubs can safely be machined down to the same diameter of the '68-'73 rotor's hubs to accept the stock wheels.
Granadas weighed between 3,000-3,400 lbs. A typical, early Mustang ['65-'70], weighs 2,445-3,122 lbs. Early Mustangs with "bigger" discs vs. later [heavier] '75-'80 Granadas with "smaller" discs illustrates that in a stopping contest, the marginally "bigger" '68-'73 Mustang discs has no significant performance advantage over the Granada's discs.
...if you want to talk about a disc that really is significantly bigger and will leave BOTH the stock '65-'73 Mustang & '75-'80 Granada discs in the dust, then the Cobra 13" rotor conversion will definitely be the winner in the battle of being both enormously larger and far superior in stopping power over either of the early Mustang or Granada disc systems.
A Cobra's 13" diameter rotor [13.00000"] minus a '68-'73 Mustang rotor's diameter of 11-19/64" [11.296875"] = a 1.703125" difference in size or, 1-45/64" larger than the early Mustang rotor. [almost 1-3/4" increase in diameter].
Cobra's 13" diameter rotor minus a '75-'80 Granada rotor's diameter of 11-1/32 [11.03125"] = a 1.96875" difference in size, or 1-31/32" larger. [just under 2.00" greater in diameter]. --These are [truely] significant gains in size over either the early Mustang or Granada discs.
13" Cobra/Bullitt/Mach 1 rotor and '01 Bullitt twin-piston, aluminum, PBR floating-caliper on my '68 Mustang, mounted to a beefy '75-'80 Granada spindle.
Rusty67
Dirt-Old 20+Year Member
ultrastang
Founding Member
The 13" Cobra rotor is mounted on a '65/'66-style Mustang V-8 5-lug drum brake hub, with the larger A-12, A-13 bearing/race sets installed to fit the larger pin diameter of the Granada spindle.
Scarebird
Member
Not true. The stock 14" 64-73 drum wheels will not clear any Granada combo, rotor pilot trimmed or not. The 68-80 type rotor would need to be trimmed to 10-5/8" OD and caliper moved inboard to fit. Also, your premise about most converting to disc also going aftermarket rims is skewed - we sold hardly any Mustang/Falcon/Fairlane conversion kits till we revised it fit inside the stock drum wheel - now they are a sales mainstay.
We also sell a version that allows conversion from 4 to 5 lug disc and retaining your stock 4 lug drum spindle. As previously stated the only real weak point of the 1960-66 4 lug spindle is the dinky A1 outer bearing - which we change out for the 70-later A12 bearing.
ultrastang
Founding Member
I can ony relate what has been the norm, in my experience, in the majority of anyone that has purchased from me over the span of the past 9-years. In that time, I can count on one hand the number of people who were wanting to keep their stock wheels. Most were switching to some other [aftermarket] wheels at the time of their conversion, or they had already long-since ditched their stock wheels for aftermarket to begin with.
Pardon my error of not presenting all the needed facts about Granada discs and stock Mustang wheels. What I should have said is that the 14" factory wheels won't fit over the caliper of a Granada brake system. However, If a person wanted to run an early Mustang wheel [although not stock to a pre-'69 model Mustang], they could run a 15" factory Magnum 500 or something like a 15" Shelby factory wheel.
If a person did want to run a stock-looking '65-up styled steel wheel, there are aftermarket wheels which look like the early styled steel wheels but come in 15", 16" and 17" diameters.
The purpose of my input to this thread was not to promote what I offer. It was to present information about some possible alternatives a person has, who is contemplating a disc brake swap for their Mustang or related Ford.
My input was only for informational purposes since I do not rely on the sales of anything I offer to make my living by. I have a full-time job that takes care of my mortgage, monthly, and daily living expenses.
If I sell something, fine. If I do not, that is fine too. I'm not under any pressure to intentionally disseminate untrue facts, or only partially true facts, in an effort to push something off on someone in hopes of getting them to buy from me. Being that the Mustang brake thing is my side-line business, I don't have to resort to sleezy used car salesman tactics to force products on people who don't want them, or more importantly, don't need any particular thing I have to offer, just so I can make a buck off them.
I am not saying you are doing this. I'm just illustrating things from my perspective and where I am coming from and the reason for my previous post to this thread. --There are, however, those in this business who do use these tactics with the people they are trying to make a living off of. They don't miss an opportunity to try and pressure individuals to buy their product, and they will say anything in an effort to try and make somone else's product look inferior just to try and win the sale for themselves.
Scarebird
Member
understood -
we dealt with a few specialty shops and they said this was the issue they wanted to see solved - one even donated a KH caliper and 14 x 5" styled wheel, supposedly the bitch-kitty to fit disc to.
I understand the issue with pushy sales. I try to let my stuff speak for itself; I spent many hours in research and fitment to get this to work.
As these horseys get older, I believe we will see a swing back to stock type or period correct rims.
we dealt with a few specialty shops and they said this was the issue they wanted to see solved - one even donated a KH caliper and 14 x 5" styled wheel, supposedly the bitch-kitty to fit disc to.
I understand the issue with pushy sales. I try to let my stuff speak for itself; I spent many hours in research and fitment to get this to work.
As these horseys get older, I believe we will see a swing back to stock type or period correct rims.
What is the everyone's opinion on the stainless steel brake corp. front disc brake setup? How does it compare to the k/h setup? I have the SSBC front brakes and they have the 4 piston calipers. My dad and I installed them years ago and I can't remember if we changed out the spindles from the stock v8/drum units.
You are talking about the SSBC version of the K/H disc brakes as used on all 65 66 67 Mustangs, all 66 67 Fairlanes.
SSBC are repos of the 4 Piston setup to the point of parts replacement being factory Ford replacement.
No, you did not change the spindles as the SSBC setup fits the V8 Spindles exactly same as the Assembly line did in 65 66 67.
Excellent quality Disc Brakes.
Dan @ Chockostang
Thats good news. I haven't had to get brake pads in 8 years so I was starting to wonder where to get them. OEM works for me.
I can say that my brakes were significantly improved when I converted to the lincoln 9" rear with disc brakes. I never thought going from drums to disc's in the rear would make such a difference. Its truly amazing.
ultrastang
Founding Member
Ford doesn't offer any factory replacement parts for the vintage Mustangs, and hasn't for many years now. The only ones offering any kind of replacement parts, based off the original Ford production designs, are aftermarket companies.
In the case of brakes and SSBC, their base A120 kit [non-power brakes] is a reproduction based on the original Ford Kelsey-Hayes 4-piston, fixed caliper, '65-'67 Mustang front disc brakes. SSBC's price tag for this setup is going to run you just under $1,000.00 dollars just for the brake components --$995.00 to be exact, [plus shipping on top of that].
Some dealers may offer the SSBC A120 kit at a lower rate than this, but don't expect to get it for less than around $850.00 [before shipping].
Conversely, CSRP also makes an exact, and accurate replica of the K/H 4-piston brake setup for '65-'67 Mustangs for far less than what SSBC charges for the same setup. You can get CSRP's [p/n SWAP.1311], non-power, 4-piston brake components for around $600.00, --delivered.
CSRP also reproduces '75-'80 Granada-based front disc brake conversions for '67-'73 Mustangs as well as specially designed Granada-based spindles with the correct steering arm angles cast into the spindles for use on the '65/'66 Mustangs.
CSRP also produces an accurate reproduction of the '68-'73 Mustang, floating, single-piston front disc brake setup for those year models.
The choice of supplier to purchase from is, of course, yours.
horseballz
10 Year Member
Guys,
Can I assume from what I'm reading here, that I can use the 4 piston OEM style K/H brakes on the 1971 Maverick I'm getting that has 5 lug drum brakes? It sounds like the stuff will bolt correctly to the Maverick spindles?
TIA,
Gene
Can I assume from what I'm reading here, that I can use the 4 piston OEM style K/H brakes on the 1971 Maverick I'm getting that has 5 lug drum brakes? It sounds like the stuff will bolt correctly to the Maverick spindles?
TIA,
Gene
ultrastang
Founding Member
'74-'77 Mavericks/Comets came from the factory with the exact same front disc brakes that came stock on the '75-'80 Granada/Mercury Monarchs. A brake system from the '75-'80 Granada/Monarch would be the very same front disc brakes that were available on the later Mavericks/Comets.
The Mavericks/Comets came with these disc brake components before the Granada/Monarchs existed.
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