Putting a 410W in my 66 coupe and have some questions
- Thread starter highhorseb
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the AFR205s are a good head choice. as for headers you are going to need swap headers anyway, may as well get ones that will work in your application. for a distributor check out the DUI distributor with a steel gear, assuming that you are going to use a roller cam. you can also use a 351w duraspark distributor and swap to a steel gear from ford motorsports, or other supplier.
Agreed, which is why I was wondering if the Supercomp Swap Headers will work. I've seen dozens people disappointed with both Accufab & Kooks "custom" Headers after spending $700+..if I need to modify a header it might as well be an off the shelf for less $$..or spend a couple more dollars to have a set fabbed locally.
Definately will be using a SR or HR cam. Thanks for the info.
Especially tube for cylinder #5 and #6 (Super Comps #6208) needed some massaging with a ball hammer for a successful transplantation (427 dart with AFR 225's).
However, the flanges shrouded so much of the exhaust port, that I later on torched the towers a bit, and made my own 2" headers with a Hedman weld-up kit.
But that’s another story..
However, the flanges shrouded so much of the exhaust port, that I later on torched the towers a bit, and made my own 2" headers with a Hedman weld-up kit.
But that’s another story..
how hard was it to make your own headers? I only ask as I am contemplating buying a kit and welding up a set to run a single turbo on my 408?
As I remember, the header construction job was quite time consuming. I would estimate it took close to 150 hours, from opening the Hedman box to starting the car again, plus modifying the shock towers.
However, the towers were more of a “hack out and weld back not-thinking-so-much job”.
What made the job (header construction) more difficult was the 2” diameter tubing (really hard fitting them in, although tower-hacking), and the fact that I still had certain parts left of the shock towers (I still use the stock suspension). It is actually nice to be able to change the spark plugs when you are finished, which is easy to forget during the build process. ; )
If you are going for turbo (Nice! I wish I could afford that) you will probably be using something around 1½” header tubing. That will give you plenty of space, especially if you have completely removed your shock towers. If I would repeat the job with smaller tubes, it would definitely take less than 100hours.
With smaller tubes and more time spent in engineering, shock towers might not even need to be modified (at least not as much as I modified mine).
PS. I really like the specs of your fastback!
However, the towers were more of a “hack out and weld back not-thinking-so-much job”.
What made the job (header construction) more difficult was the 2” diameter tubing (really hard fitting them in, although tower-hacking), and the fact that I still had certain parts left of the shock towers (I still use the stock suspension). It is actually nice to be able to change the spark plugs when you are finished, which is easy to forget during the build process. ; )
If you are going for turbo (Nice! I wish I could afford that) you will probably be using something around 1½” header tubing. That will give you plenty of space, especially if you have completely removed your shock towers. If I would repeat the job with smaller tubes, it would definitely take less than 100hours.
With smaller tubes and more time spent in engineering, shock towers might not even need to be modified (at least not as much as I modified mine).
PS. I really like the specs of your fastback!
Thanks for all the info. I am actually contemplating purchasing the hedman 351w swap headers that are mid-length. They have 1 5/8 primaries and would allow me to run a cross over pipe under the trans. I am not sure if anyone has run these before but I think they will allow me to retain powersteering and go turbo.
I am just finishing up my 65 coupe for re-sale and then will be in the thick of it with the fastback. I'll post updates soon...as always, thanks for all the helpful info.
Sorry for hi-jacking the thread a bit.
Are you going with the #88650's or the #88660's?
I bought a pair of the 88660's, for my first 351 with Jr heads, about 12 years ago, but never used them (still have them though, somewhere..). I got the #6208's instead.
The Jr's have a rectangular port, and the Hedmans have sort of an oval port exhaust flange, which shrouds the exhaust port a bit.
You can compare the Hooker Super Comp's with Hedmans flange's using the 360 views on Summit racing . com (just to give you an idea if the match/mismatch is acceptable for you).
Another issue I had with my #6208's was that the collectors came quite close to the floor, due to the raised exhaust ports on AFR225's. That plus port shrouding got me going with Hedmans weld up kit. However, floor clearance was not so much of a problem with the Vic Jr's.
Just sharing a couple of surprises and experiences I've had over the years with header selection. Finding a set that will fit perfectly on a 9.5" deck Windsor in a 65-66 is difficult. Hopefully I might contribute, and facilitate your selection process..
I think that if you want headers for Vic Jr’s; the optimal ”easy solution” would be the #6208’s, but with modification on tube 5 & 6 (cut/bend/weld sharper radius on both just after the header flange).
Edit: You said "mid-length" so I assume it's the #88650's you are looking at.. I was a bit tired last night and missed that. Sorry..
408W headers
Wow, I could have written this post myself! Maybe this will help your decision making process:
Primaries 1 5/8" or smaller fit better and are fine for low and mid range torque but are too small to make big power up top. Your displacement and head selection indicate flow numbers that small primary tubes will restrict power above, say, 5000rpm. A 1 3/4" primary would be the smallest I'd consider for your combination (from a power standpoint), but the fit gets tricky.
I made my own headers 20 years ago and I'll never do it again. It was an enormous project. They seem to work ok, but the shock tower mods add more time to the project, plus they're ugly as hell because my welding skills are not exactly world class. However, what finally made up my mind to go the way I did was that none of the aftermarket headers bolted up to the "wide" bolt pattern on my heads. The "narrow" pattern pinched the tubes too close together and choked off the exhaust port too much for my liking. So I had flanges flame cut out of 3/8" plate that fit the "wide" pattern and went to town.
Hope this helps!
Wow, I could have written this post myself! Maybe this will help your decision making process:
Primaries 1 5/8" or smaller fit better and are fine for low and mid range torque but are too small to make big power up top. Your displacement and head selection indicate flow numbers that small primary tubes will restrict power above, say, 5000rpm. A 1 3/4" primary would be the smallest I'd consider for your combination (from a power standpoint), but the fit gets tricky.
I made my own headers 20 years ago and I'll never do it again. It was an enormous project. They seem to work ok, but the shock tower mods add more time to the project, plus they're ugly as hell because my welding skills are not exactly world class. However, what finally made up my mind to go the way I did was that none of the aftermarket headers bolted up to the "wide" bolt pattern on my heads. The "narrow" pattern pinched the tubes too close together and choked off the exhaust port too much for my liking. So I had flanges flame cut out of 3/8" plate that fit the "wide" pattern and went to town.
Hope this helps!
69gmachine
Member
I have Accufab 1 3/4 headers on my 408, and although i did have to modify 3 of the 8 tubes in order to prevent the spark plug wires from burning and improve spark plug access, The modifications were slight and only cost another $150 or so.
The flange was made to fit the wider bolt spacing available on the AFR 205s as well as their ports, and the ease of installation is incredibly good compared to the Hooker Super Comps. Yes they're a bit pricey, but effectively I have "custom" headers for a reasonable cost that fit exceptionally well. I don't have the skill or patience to weld up my own headers, so I didn't really have a choice.
I don't see why you would spend the money on a powerful 410 engine with great breathing heads, and then cheap out on the headers?? Most of us are never finished with our projects anyway. You'll be taking the engine out for one reason or another or doing other work that will require removal of the headers. I say get the best you can find/afford.
The flange was made to fit the wider bolt spacing available on the AFR 205s as well as their ports, and the ease of installation is incredibly good compared to the Hooker Super Comps. Yes they're a bit pricey, but effectively I have "custom" headers for a reasonable cost that fit exceptionally well. I don't have the skill or patience to weld up my own headers, so I didn't really have a choice.
I don't see why you would spend the money on a powerful 410 engine with great breathing heads, and then cheap out on the headers?? Most of us are never finished with our projects anyway. You'll be taking the engine out for one reason or another or doing other work that will require removal of the headers. I say get the best you can find/afford.
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