CAM QUESTION!

[11sec.]

Well i have a pretty much stock 4.6 2v with 4.10 gears exhaust and nitrous. Im wanting to buy some cams but idk how to go about it or what is better to go with? All i wont is for it to have a good loup and gain some hp with out haveing todo much more to it im kind of on a budget........Please help

 

[Deleted member 38176]

It's been said countless time before so I might as well get it out of the way.....Hitech Stage 2 cams. There are guys that are putting up 300rwhp with these cams and basic bolt-ons. No other stage 1 or 2 cams can come close to that. Hitech states that no other valvetrain mods are needed to make these work (ie. valve springs, etc). Hell, there are guys that didn't even degree these cams and have had zero issues (just install and go).

I've done a lot of cam research because Im doing cams myself here shortly and after all the research Ive done, there just isn't anything out there that can compete with the Hitech's.

 

[jomull55]

Hitech Stage II's are the best n/a on a stock PI head...

I will have a set for sale in the next few months since i'm going turbo.

 

[11sec.]

Ok so there also ok to run with my nitrous? Also i just want to make sure that i dont have to notch the pistons or anything like that since ive heard from some ppl that i might!!!! Also will it have a prob. with idling?

 

[Dark04GT]

Cams are a great bang for buck but they are in no sense cheap. Taking the example of the hitech stage II's they are $600 plus the install and the necessary dyno tune.... so you are looking at over $1k easy.

Hitech recommends springs if your stang is over 100k miles. I did my cams w/ the stock springs since I have ~70k miles. I'll tell you from first hand experience that there is significantly more valvetrain noise, if I were to do it again I would probably do springs even with the additional cost.

They also advertise that their cams don't require degreeing, this is not the case however. These cams favor the intake side and there are some reports of piston to valve clearance problems on the intake side- each side of our 4.6L motors can be slightly off from the factory because the stock cams allow this- but w/ aftermarket cams you don't have as much clearance------***make sure you degree any set of new cams.

Other than that last scare paragraph I love my hitech stage II's. No loss of power down low, solid gains in the midrange and top end. A nice flat torque curve, I couldn't ask for much more. I put down 290rwhp on a mustang dyno which should be good for 300+ on a dynojet. But that is in addition to full boltons. With the cams my nitto 555's have a tough time keeping up in 1st and 2nd.

Hitech sells blower/nitrous cams and many other companies do as well. Most NA cams will work fine with nitrous too, just make sure you tune. Take a look at the stage II cams such as the comp 270's, MHS, and hitech just to name a few.

Learn a little about the specs on the cams, watch youtube videos, and figure out what you want from the cams (power, sound, driveability). The majority of the sound that you get from your cams depends on your current exhaust setup / future exhaust setup. An offroad midpipe will get you the most lope. Also don't get the biggest cam out there, really a stage III cam is not for stock heads / daily driven car, you end up losing too much power in the low rpm range.

 

[11sec.]

Cams are a great bang for buck but they are in no sense cheap. Taking the example of the hitech stage II's they are $600 plus the install and the necessary dyno tune.... so you are looking at over $1k easy.

Hitech recommends springs if your stang is over 100k miles. I did my cams w/ the stock springs since I have ~70k miles. I'll tell you from first hand experience that there is significantly more valvetrain noise, if I were to do it again I would probably do springs even with the additional cost.

They also advertise that their cams don't require degreeing, this is not the case however. These cams favor the intake side and there are some reports of piston to valve clearance problems on the intake side- each side of our 4.6L motors can be slightly off from the factory because the stock cams allow this- but w/ aftermarket cams you don't have as much clearance------***make sure you degree any set of new cams.

Other than that last scare paragraph I love my hitech stage II's. No loss of power down low, solid gains in the midrange and top end. A nice flat torque curve, I couldn't ask for much more. I put down 290rwhp on a mustang dyno which should be good for 300+ on a dynojet. But that is in addition to full boltons. With the cams my nitto 555's have a tough time keeping up in 1st and 2nd.

Hitech sells blower/nitrous cams and many other companies do as well. Most NA cams will work fine with nitrous too, just make sure you tune. Take a look at the stage II cams such as the comp 270's, MHS, and hitech just to name a few.

Learn a little about the specs on the cams, watch youtube videos, and figure out what you want from the cams (power, sound, driveability). The majority of the sound that you get from your cams depends on your current exhaust setup / future exhaust setup. An offroad midpipe will get you the most lope. Also don't get the biggest cam out there, really a stage III cam is not for stock heads / daily driven car, you end up losing too much power in the low rpm range.

WOW ok thanks that was alot of good info thanks again!!!

 

[Deleted member 38176]

really long post

By any chance would you happen to have any soundclips of your exhaust? You have the EXACT setup I want.

 

[Dark04GT]

I got off work early today. Let me see what I can do.

 

[Night Shifter]

i love my hitech II's BUT, i dont think the lope is very noticeable...somedays its heavier than others but i honestly whish i would have went with comp 270's..they have a very heavy lope to them and are very noticeable at idle..

im sure it depends on what exhaust you're running and what your idle is set at also...mine lope nice but i thought when i bought them they would be way more noticeable

 

[Dark04GT]

i love my hitech II's BUT, i dont think the lope is very noticeable...somedays its heavier than others but i honestly whish i would have went with comp 270's..they have a very heavy lope to them and are very noticeable at idle..

im sure it depends on what exhaust you're running and what your idle is set at also...mine lope nice but i thought when i bought them they would be way more noticeable

I agree. The 270's are much more aggressive on the exhaust side, my lope is only slightly more aggressive than stock w/ my catted prochamber.

Here is my start up, three revs, plus some idle time.
YouTube - 2004 Mustang GT w/ hitech stage II cams

The whistling sound is from the CAI (that started after I put the cams in)

This is about as loud as the hitechs are going to lope (about 50secs into the video)... and this is with a o/r X and straight through mufflers:
YouTube - HiTech Stage 2 cams

 

[Deleted member 38176]

Here is my start up, three revs, plus some idle time.
YouTube - 2004 Mustang GT w/ hitech stage II cams

 

[Dark04GT]

Haha thanks for the compliments.

 

[Night Shifter]

dark your car sounds really freaking good

i wish my car loped like the car in the 2nd vid...id be happy as hell

 

[Dark04GT]

dark your car sounds really freaking good

i wish my car loped like the car in the 2nd vid...id be happy as hell

Thanks for the compliments. That lope on the 2nd vid is pretty sick, the guy who owns that car seems to be a good driver too- looking at his other videos 12.16 1/4....

 

[Maxpowers]

Some things to think about op:
I would have to assume that with a set of cams, that you would want to have a good tune and not a mail order tune. Need to keep that expense in mind.

I see a lot of people talking about Hitech II's and needing/wishing they had upgraded the valve train. If that's the case, you might want to consider going with a more aggressive cam.

 

[Deleted member 38176]

Some things to think about op:
I would have to assume that with a set of cams, that you would want to have a good tune and not a mail order tune. Need to keep that expense in mind.

I see a lot of people talking about Hitech II's and needing/wishing they had upgraded the valve train. If that's the case, you might want to consider going with a more aggressive cam.

Thats a good point, however stock PI heads can only flow so much and cams like the Hitech stg. 2's are right up there at the limit. Any bigger cams would just be a waste on stock heads.

 

[Dark04GT]

Some things to think about op:
I would have to assume that with a set of cams, that you would want to have a good tune and not a mail order tune. Need to keep that expense in mind.

I see a lot of people talking about Hitech II's and needing/wishing they had upgraded the valve train. If that's the case, you might want to consider going with a more aggressive cam.

I agree that a dyno tune is absolutely necessary with any set of cams. I eluded to that in the first paragraph of my tom clancy post above that this is not a cheap process and the dyno tune was mandatory.

As far as cam selection I want everyone to pick what they want most in a cam. If by aggressive you mean exhaust sound than yes, the hitechs are not aggressive and I would suggest another cam. If by aggressive you are talking performance numbers than they are right up there with any other stage II on the market or slightly outedging other cams in some respects (don't need gears, better numbers, etc.). I got the cams for the numbers, to the OP you have to choose what balance is most important for you.

 

[Maxpowers]

Thats a good point, however stock PI heads can only flow so much and cams like the Hitech stg. 2's are right up there at the limit. Any bigger cams would just be a waste on stock heads.

I agree with going with them if you are planning to keep all other head parts stock. However, if you are planning to upgrade valves / springs, why not upgrade to the point where you can add a stage 3 cam?

I have yet to look into any of this, so I have no clue about the cost or flow restrictions of the PI heads. I'm just saying that if you can upgrade the PI head to perform with stage 3 cam, and you plan on upgrading the valves and such, why not go all they way?

 

[Dark04GT]

I agree with going with them if you are planning to keep all other head parts stock. However, if you are planning to upgrade valves / springs, why not upgrade to the point where you can add a stage 3 cam?

I have yet to look into any of this, so I have no clue about the cost or flow restrictions of the PI heads. I'm just saying that if you can upgrade the PI head to perform with stage 3 cam, and you plan on upgrading the valves and such, why not go all they way?

Because a 'stage 3' cam is not always the best thing.

First off the duration of these cams make them incompatable with stock short blocks. They have significant PTV clearance issues / there is no way they are going to work with stock pistons and valves. If you want a 'stage 3' cam you are going to have to open up the block and notch the pistons / change the valves or some combination of the two.

Second when you get such aggressive profiles you start to lose low end power and torque in exchange for gains in the high end- and I'm talking not until 4500 rpm +. So for a daily driver you are going to be driving around a car that is more sluggish than if it had stock cams.... For a drag car the stage 3's make sense because you are getting the biggest gains and combined with some 4.56's you are going to have a beast. But for a daily driven car the couple hp you gain in my mind is not worth the loss in drivability.

See the dyno charts below (These are engine dynos w/ ported heads from the magazine mustangs and fast fords)
'stage I' cams- comp 262's- notice you have gains in hp and torque over the entire rpm range with the peak @ 386hp

'stage 3' cams- comp 278's- notice you have a loss of torque and hp up until 4500rpm, than it opens up with a peak hp of 394hp-but really late in the rpm range.

They even wrote this:
For the vast majority of street applications, the smaller XE262AH would be the clear choice, but the XE278AH cams would likely offer quicker e.t.'s and a higher trap speed if you kept the revs up.

Now I'm not saying the trust the magazines but dyno sheets don't lie.

 

[Maxpowers]

Because a 'stage 3' cam is not always the best thing.

First off the duration of these cams make them incompatable with stock short blocks. They have significant PTV clearance issues / there is no way they are going to work with stock pistons and valves. If you want a 'stage 3' cam you are going to have to open up the block and notch the pistons / change the valves or some combination of the two.

Second when you get such aggressive profiles you start to lose low end power and torque in exchange for gains in the high end- and I'm talking not until 4500 rpm +. So for a daily driver you are going to be driving around a car that is more sluggish than if it had stock cams.... For a drag car the stage 3's make sense because you are getting the biggest gains and combined with some 4.56's you are going to have a beast. But for a daily driven car the couple hp you gain in my mind is not worth the loss in drivability.

Very interesting. Like I stated above, I know nothing about this and did not do any research. Do they also have a stage 2 graph? I would assume that a stage two would be a compromise of the two?