suspension guys.. take a look please :)

[Jaym14]

Ok So the time has finally come.. 2 years in the works.. my car is going to the shop to have the cobra brakes/5 lug swap done finally... the culmination of 2 years of planning and parts gathering!

Anyway.. I figured while its partially apart I should take some time to address my suspension which is currently stock except for lakewood rear lowers and poly bushings on the front sway bar... also I have no quad shocks and the rear sway bar is removed (purchased car like that and haven't had time to install one yet)

The car is a street car (weekend warrior only).. I have no interest in a drag type set up.. I like my cars to handle.. however I'm not ever going to autocross my car... SO.. I'm trying to get the most practical street set up without killing the bank.. here's what I'm planning..

Critique this please......

Cobra rear sway bar
FMS upper control arms
MM Panhard Bar
Keep the lakewood LCA's
Tokico Hp Series Strut & Shock Kit (blue kit)
MM Strut tower brace
new front poly sway bar end links (the stockers are shot)

I think this would give good bang for the buck and be a huge improvement over the current stock set up..... let me know what you all think.

P.S. already have subframes and a cage in the car..

 

[No.11]

cage for a street car? you gonna wear a helmet all the time?

other than that, nice! maybe a torque arm too?

 

[281pony]

i think you have a real nice list. only thing i might throw in the mix would be the torque arm. they are pretty spendy, but i really like mine on the street. it lays down power so well, and the ride quality was notably better.

good choice on the upper control arms too if your not gonna do the torque arm.

 

[stykthyn]

keep the stock rear sway bar and get a torque arm if you have the cash.

 

[CarMichael Angelo]

keep the stock rear sway bar and get a torque arm if you have the cash.

Will/can you still get tailpipes past the panhard bar if you install a torque arm?

 

[2000xp8]

Not quite sure what a rear cobra sway bar is.

And where are the springs?
Springs, CC plates and new shocks and struts would be top on my list.
Suspension parts add up quick.
Those are the parts that you will want so you can get it aligned just once.

I also wouldn't waste the money on the strut tower brace.

And if you don't have subframe connectors, that's got to be first, or else the rest of the parts are useless.



And mike, the panhard bar will work with stock exhaust, and supposidly the dynomax SS kit and one of the FM kits.
The rest need to be modified.

 

[NIKwoaC]

Good list, but I think the Cobra sway bar may be a wasted effort. I guess that could be one of those things that you switch in and out with the stock bar and see which one you like better.

Not quite sure what a rear cobra sway bar is.

The '93 Cobra sway bars were exclusive to the Cobra. IIRC, they had a smaller diameter than the GT bars, they were supposed to be more compliant to match the other suspension differences in the Cobra.

 

[Jaym14]

1994-98 Mustang Cobra Rear Sway Bar Factory Ford, 25Mm at LRS - Same Day Shipping!

This is the sway bar I was talking about

 

[Jaym14]

Not quite sure what a rear cobra sway bar is.

And where are the springs?
Springs, CC plates and new shocks and struts would be top on my list.
Suspension parts add up quick.
Those are the parts that you will want so you can get it aligned just once.

I also wouldn't waste the money on the strut tower brace.

And if you don't have subframe connectors, that's got to be first, or else the rest of the parts are useless.



And mike, the panhard bar will work with stock exhaust, and supposidly the dynomax SS kit and one of the FM kits.
The rest need to be modified.

I'm not interested in lowering the car at this time hence the lack of springs on my list.. and I already have subframe connectors... CC plates are hit and miss some ppl love em.. some hate em... I wont need em cause I'm not planning on lowering the car at this time...

 

[stang&2Birds]

Do you want an honest answer?
Or, do you want to just hear how great your combo/choice is?
IMHO, most people REALLY want the latter.


Just in case it is the former:

Cobra rear sway bar - Total waste, and it does not go with your setup AT ALL.

FMS upper control arms - Replace if needed. Otherwise, it's a waste.

MM Panhard Bar - I'd love one. But, for me, the effort and time isn't worth the benefit.

Keep the lakewood LCA's - IMHO, use Ford, MM. or Steeda. Or, keep that POS death trap of public roads.

Tokico Hp Series Strut & Shock Kit (blue kit) - Good for the money. I like them.

MM Strut tower brace - IMHO, the strut towers in Fox and sn95 are too weak. That's well known fact, and is true, in just about all older cars without double wishbone systems. So, it'll help to reduce the flex in those strut towers.

new front poly sway bar end links (the stockers are shot) - Poly bushings are god. Especially if you're still running the original or rubber.



Now, as for improving handling: It will improving handling a little, and you won't have a harsher ride. In fact, I found the Tok blues a huge improvement over stock-type of shocks.

But, for better handling, you really need to stiffen up the springs. IMHO, a panhard bar will do very little on stock springs compared to the Mach1/Bullitt stiffer 600lb springs. If you want to keep near stock height, you can do what I did. Use ploy isolators up front, Mach1 springs, and use the Steeda spring spacer. Those mods will result in lowering the car a slight amount (~~1/4 to ~1/2"). For the rear, you'll need the MM adjustable LCA ($$) to keep the same height. They went on sale a few times this past Christmas season. That's when I got mine.


My suggestion is to not spend the money on the panhard bar. Throw the Lakewoods LCAs in the trash, and decide if the harsher ride with 600lb springs is worth the better handling. The Mach1 springs ARE NOTICEABLY harsher than the stock springs! And, the stock GT springs are harsh to begin with.


Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[stang&2Birds]

I'm not interested in lowering the car at this time hence the lack of springs on my list.. and I already have subframe connectors... CC plates are hit and miss some ppl love em.. some hate em... I wont need em cause I'm not planning on lowering the car at this time...

Subframes should be one of the first mods on any Fox/sn95 with their wet spaghetti-strength frames.

For CC plates, get MM - period.
CC plates will improve handling on a non lowered car because they remove the rubber bushing up top. They also have a life expectancy of ~~30-60K miles ~~3-7 years. Verses "lifetime" for the upper strut bushings.

CC plates will also increase NVH (noise vibration harshness)! For a non lowered car, the improvement in handling may not be worth the increase in NVH.

Going with a MM steering shaft will improve road feel. But, increase NVH in the steering wheel.
Still, *I* think the improved road feel is well worth it!!
Get an MM steering shaft, or do the world a favor, and keep any death trap with that "other POS steering shaft (FR)" off public roads!

 

[Jaym14]

Thanks for the detailed response.. the bulllitt/Mach springs are the only springs I would consider putting on my car.... what do you think of this kit... 1994-04 Mustang Bullitt Ford Racing Suspension Kit M-5400-A at LRS - Same Day Shipping!

 

[Mustang5L5]

Well, you will not be able to use the sway bars....the front at least. Maybe the rear, but it's not matched to the front.


For $500, you can probably get a set of used bullets/Mach springs and buy a quality set of adjustable aftermarket shocks/struts. Not that I am advocating purchasing used over new parts, but you can get a little more bang for the buck snagging a set of used springs for $75-100 and using the remaining $400 for adjustable shocks/struts.

With that said...I love my Mach springs

 

[stang&2Birds]

Yup, used springs are just as good as bed new springs. Of course, that's assuming they aren't broken (semi-common with Fox springs in snow States), cut, heated, or modified.

The HUGE problem with buying used springs is that a typical salvage yard HAS NO CLUE AT ALL if the springs are non-stock (replaced with B or C, or mach1 springs), cut, etc. And, S&H for springs gets expensive. So, for people that need/want a GT 100% stock replacement, it can be a pain. Even going through the classified on the site can result in incorrect springs.

I know the above very well. I spent over 6 months on my own person quest to get a set of 100% stock GT springs. Think it's easy - BS!
I exchanged 4 emails asking a ton of questions to someone selling springs in the classifieds. Then, I meet him, get the springs, and the moron that gave him the springs had cut ~1.5 coils from the top of the springs. After we email chatted some more, and he talked to his friend, his friend admitted to him that when he put the springs on his car, the car was basically sitting on the frame. NO ****ING kidding! Gee, nice friend! So, thanks to his clueless friend, we both wasted 2+hours of driving.

Actually, there is one place, and IMHO one and only place, where people can buy used Stang springs with a good degree of confidence - Performance Parts Inc. (PPI). Yea, they charge ~double++ what you'd pay for the springs at the local junk yard (I have a number of those sets also). But, at least you know that you're not wasting your money on shipping for the wrong springs.

Also, not counting PPI's prices , I have nothing but great things to say about them. And, you'll find that's typical in the forums. I guess it's true that sometimes you get what you pay for.


BTW: MANY places/sellers sell the Bullitt/Mach1 springs as the same thing. The Bullitts will result in ~1/4" lower. For a car like mine, that loss of height would be critical. My tires barely clear the fenders now. And, when I put on my Blizzaks for the winter (so I can drive the car ~1/month), since they are basically "new" tires with very little wear, the tires will scrape the fender easily while turning.


Looks like PPI only has new Bullitt and Mach1 springs:
PPI | Suspension | 1994-2004

2001 Bullitt front and rear spring set, these are "real deal!", very limited quantity, perfect for 1987-04 Mustangs!, new $329.99/set

2003-04 Mach 1 front and rear spring set, perfect for 1987-04 Mustangs!, new $329.99/set

2003-04 Mach 1 front and rear strut and shock set, perfect for 1987-04 Mustangs!, new $499.99/set

 

[stang&2Birds]

If you're going to buy new or used Bullitt or mach1 springs, it's a good idea to find out the part number before you buy them. For used springs, this should be simple, especially for ebay or the classifieds. Also, you may want to first try a
"WTB Mach1 springs" post
in the classifieds here. Before you buy any springs, get the part number, and pictures! It could be a good way to save a good amount of money. And, no I do not have any springs that I'm selling. Nor, di I know of anyone selling any.

BTW
Ford "B" and "C" part numbers:
M-5300-B
MOF E5SC-5310-KA (front)
E5SC-5560-AA (rear)

M-5300-C
SAD E4BC-5310-AA (front)
MIB E5SC-5560-AA (rear)


2001/2002 Bullitt
Front: 1R3Z-5310-CA
Rear: 1R3Z-5560-AA


2003 Mach 1
Front: 3R3Z-5310-CA
Rear: 3R3Z-5560-AA

 

[stang&2Birds]

And, the difference between the Mach1 and Bullitt springs:
Note that visually, there's very little difference.
And, as for a no-load height, that's semi-meaningless since there are many factors.

Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum - View Single Post - Mach 1 or BULLITT springs?

 

[2000xp8]

IMO if you aren't going to lower the car, i wouldn't bother with anything other than changing the shocks.

 

[stang&2Birds]

IMO if you aren't going to lower the car, i wouldn't bother with anything other than changing the shocks.

WARNING, one of my classic RANTS follows:

WTF?!!?!?!?!!?

Uhm, you do realize, DON'T YOU, that the GT IS A LOWERED PLATFORM ALREADY - don't you? And, the RICERS that lower the car more than 1" are just that RICERS! Unless someone COMPLETELY CHANGES the kframe and rear suspension ~3/4" is the MAX drop that a Fox or SN95 can be lowered before handling is DRASTICALLY EFFECTED!!

Sorry, B springs and C springs are FOR LOOKS ONLY! A good driver can drive better on stock GT springs!

Oh, wait, don't take what I say, or every technical site/paper, how about if we go by the EXPERTS - the people that DESIGNED THE STANG! Check out the height of the 100% PURE RACE ONLY 95 Cobra R - NOT available to the general public - no radio, no ac, no power anything - meant purely to meet the min required production numbers for racing (circle track).

BTW, the 95 Cobra R was lowered ~1/2" to 3/4" from the GT. There are PLENTY of books, specs, and sites to confirm that.

Then again, WTF do engineers know? And, why the **** bother to make ALL of those minor changes in the 87-93 front suspension over the years.


As I said, the GT is a *LOWERED PLATFORM*. This FACT is so simple so basic, so easy to verify, it's*****ING amazing that there still is the "adjust the TPS to .999999v mentality" with the GT suspension.

But, hey, using a tape measure requires at least 6 Ph.D's and 20 years experience. And, clearly, finding a non Fox or sn95 Stang to measure/compare is *****ing impossible!


Even lowering the Stang 1/2" introduces more suspension issues.
For one, I like lowering the Stang 1"+. Nothing says "I'm *******ing intelligent as all **** about handling" when the roll center is below the ground, and the bump steer & camber change are massive.


Rant off.

BTW: Yes, I do have springs for a 95 Cobra R that "one day" will go on my Stang. They are at the limit for a street-able Stang. But, they are still considered "a little soft" for the hard-core handling group. But, then again, they also don't run an otherwise stock suspension setup. So, it's not a 100% valid comparison to say that the 95 Cobra R springs "should be a little stiffer". Ford did a lot of testing in doing the 95 Cobra R. The even adjusted sway bar rates and bushing densities. So, I very much doubt that something as simple and trivial and going to a stiffer spring rate would make much difference on the "stock" suspension configuration.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I think that might be reading into his statement a little too much.

 

[Adams91LX]

^ ^ ^

breathe... it will be okay.