Ok, I have been saying that whenever I find the right deal on a T5 I would jump on it. Ok, so any T5 that is world class always has a 100-200 higher price tag on it. Is there that big of a difference? I think I read that the world class has bearings inside instead of bronze bushings or something like that? Anyway, I have a warmed over 289 in my car...may be making 250 horsepower. I don't plan on ever exceeding 300 horses in my car, or taking it to a drag strip, will a regular old T5 work for my application? Or should I just go ahead and spend a little extra and get the world class? Had a guy tell me once the difference in the plain T5 and a World Class is the difference between crap and crap with flowers growing out of it....so anyway, any advice is welcome!
I need some honest advice for T5
- Thread starter robbz28
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iskwezm
10 Year Member
I had a world class and broke it behind my N/A 289.
I now have a non WC T5 out of a 85 GT and its lasted behind the same motor with a blower and now a turbo.I do drive it just hard, so i cant say.
I now have a non WC T5 out of a 85 GT and its lasted behind the same motor with a blower and now a turbo.I do drive it just hard, so i cant say.
horseballz
10 Year Member
After you read this:
Ford Mustang: Mustang Tech: Transmission and Drivetrain: Borg Warner T5 Transmission data
Any T5 you get should get a steel front bearing retainer installed. The part of it that is steel is the part that the throw out bearing rides on and the aluminum ones get a groove worn on them that makes the clutch feel funny and/or bind.
HTH,
Gene
Ford Mustang: Mustang Tech: Transmission and Drivetrain: Borg Warner T5 Transmission data
Any T5 you get should get a steel front bearing retainer installed. The part of it that is steel is the part that the throw out bearing rides on and the aluminum ones get a groove worn on them that makes the clutch feel funny and/or bind.
HTH,
Gene
That was a good very very helpful article...glad i read it too, the transmission a guy was trying to sell me was out of a turbo tbird....4.05 first gear and a torque rating of 235....not the combo I want. I will just keep my eyes open and this article handy!
68stang351
Founding Member
I had a non W.C. T5 (actually out of a 4 cylinder car) behind a stock windsor with an intake and bolt-ons, beating the hell out of it and launching as hard as possible on drag radials. It took like 3 or 4 years before it broke. I was surprised it lasted that long.
When that happened I put a W.C. in it, and have been abusing it the same for about 4 or 5 years, and the last year has been with the 351w with TFS heads, cam, and all the other typical crap. I haven't had any problems with it .................yet. I guess I've had good luck with them.
When that happened I put a W.C. in it, and have been abusing it the same for about 4 or 5 years, and the last year has been with the 351w with TFS heads, cam, and all the other typical crap. I haven't had any problems with it .................yet. I guess I've had good luck with them.
Found a NWC out of an 84 GT for 400....guy says it works (still going to have a shop look at it before i put it in anything) should i jump on this? Just so you know i have been looking in my local craigslists for months now and our junkyards are void of mustang parts.
65FBE2
Member
I would only use a WC. Not saying you can't get by with a Non WC but they will wear out an break much faster. The T5z is the best but normaly you will not find them used. Also I find the first gear a little to low for my liking on the WC or Non WC compared to the 2.95 of the T5z. I bought a rebuilt WC for $700 including shipping on ebay an have been happy with it. I put it behind a very simular package
This one has the 2.95 first gear too...i decoded the tag on a website, it is from an 84 GT with 2.95 first and .60 final, but it is a non world class....but I have heard so many different stories. I am just ready to get this done. I want to drive this car more, my daily commute is 30 miles one way and my Tundra gets 15 mpg....I would like to set this car up to get 20-25, i think that will be very possible with the 2.89 gears and the mild engine.
horseballz
10 Year Member
Robb,
Not to pick nits, but your rear gears are more likely 2.79. I currently have the same setup, but with .68 5th gear and 225/60/15 tires at 25.6 diameter. You can go to Summit or TireRack, or others, to get the actual height of your size/brand tires. The same number size is not necessarily the same from brand to brand or even model to model. After you have you diameter. check this link:
Engine RPM Calculator
I must tell you that with my setup, even at 70-80 mph you can still tell that the gear ratios are working against each other and not really giving the improvement that you might expect. With my tires and your ratios, at 65 mph you wold be at 1428 rpm. 4th gear/1 to 1/original current transmission 65 mph would be 2380 rpm. It's not just about the final ratio, but how the different ratios work together. You won't likely dee a dramatic mileage improvement until you get up to 3.25-3.40 for the rear gears, but with that .60 trans, you might need to go as high as 3.55. Of course your cam and intake manifold have a dramatic effect on your optimum highway cruising rpm, but 1428 is a tad low for even bone stock. I'd bet that 1700-1900 would be a good rpm range to shoot for at 65 mph. Some other experts may be able to give you more exact ideas if you give us all your engine data. Sorry for the long post, but it's not as simple as it may seem. Look at it this way just lowering the rpm is only part of the battle. If the engine has to work harder to turn the rear wheels, no or little gain. It's a fine, fine balance.
HTH,
Gene
Not to pick nits, but your rear gears are more likely 2.79. I currently have the same setup, but with .68 5th gear and 225/60/15 tires at 25.6 diameter. You can go to Summit or TireRack, or others, to get the actual height of your size/brand tires. The same number size is not necessarily the same from brand to brand or even model to model. After you have you diameter. check this link:
Engine RPM Calculator
I must tell you that with my setup, even at 70-80 mph you can still tell that the gear ratios are working against each other and not really giving the improvement that you might expect. With my tires and your ratios, at 65 mph you wold be at 1428 rpm. 4th gear/1 to 1/original current transmission 65 mph would be 2380 rpm. It's not just about the final ratio, but how the different ratios work together. You won't likely dee a dramatic mileage improvement until you get up to 3.25-3.40 for the rear gears, but with that .60 trans, you might need to go as high as 3.55. Of course your cam and intake manifold have a dramatic effect on your optimum highway cruising rpm, but 1428 is a tad low for even bone stock. I'd bet that 1700-1900 would be a good rpm range to shoot for at 65 mph. Some other experts may be able to give you more exact ideas if you give us all your engine data. Sorry for the long post, but it's not as simple as it may seem. Look at it this way just lowering the rpm is only part of the battle. If the engine has to work harder to turn the rear wheels, no or little gain. It's a fine, fine balance.
HTH,
Gene
I understand about the engine laboring under low rpm's being just as bad as the engine working at higher rpms....I think my engines "happy place" is around 1700. I had full intentions on changing out the rear gears whenever I put a posi in it later (hadn't decided on 3.25 or 3.55 yet). Anyway, I found a mustang junkyard thats not TOO far from me (4 hours) they will sell me a world class T5 they guarantee for 1 year with a bellhousing for 695, I think I am going to go that route, now I need to find out if I want to do cable or hydraulic, I am really on the fence about that.
Well I went on ahead and got me a used world class series coming, bellhousing, trans, fork, shifter for 750...I probably could have gotten a better deal with patience, but I don't think thats TOO bad...the guy will guarantee it for 90 days. We will just have to see about that. I am leaning towards a modern driveline hydraulic clutch setup, I have long tube headers and really don't want to ever have to worry about cooking my cable or modifying my headers etc...With my luck I would spend more money getting the cable to work right than I would have on the hydraulic system.
A very common cause for T-5 failures is bending the shift forks from making hard shifts. One The very best things you can do to save a T-5 is buy an aftermarket shifter with adjustable stops to prevent this. I learned this the hard way...lol As previously stated, getting rid of the aluminum bearing retainer in favor of a steel is also "must do" IMO.
I am not sure about changing out the shifter yet (I know I won't be racing this car, it's only 225 horsepower) but I am sold on the bearing retainer, anyone ever replaced one of these? Pretty straightforward? I have also read about different lenghts, I would want to get the right one.
Surely one of the easiest things you can do. There are 4 bolts, it pops off and be careful with the shims behind it. Put the shims on and use some RTV sealer around the bearing retainer and bolt it back on. Your done.
Well thats fantastic, just read some stories about people having troubles, having to force it on, etc....MOST of those folks also didn't buy the Ford Racing retainer and got the ebay special.
horseballz
10 Year Member
robbz28,
After fabbing my own clutch master setup, I must say that the Modern Driveline master cylinder setup is slicker than snot. A tiny bit over priced, but I guess when considering the R&D that must have gone into it, not too bad and I would likely have sprung the $$$ for it if it were available at the time. On the other hand, I do NOT like their slave setup! Where it fastens to the bell housing is a very thin/weak spot, IMHO, and WAY overpriced. I have a different design that uses the bolts that fasten the transmission to the bell housing, similar to DaysCars bracket for the Tremec 3550, TKO 500/600.
DazeCars, For Sale Page
I do not like his bracket listed for the T5, as it bolts to the 2 little, flimsy tabs on the side of the transmission, like many other brand T5 slave kits. I can hook you up with one of my brackets that utilizes a late 80s to early 90s chebbie pickup slave ($35-$55 depending on your source) and all you need to do is plumb it and make you own rod out of 3/8" stainless threaded rod. I don't want this to be construed as a for sale post, so PM me if you'd like me to hook you up. My slave setup is FAR superior to anything currently on the market, I simply haven't had the time or $$$ to put together complete kits for sale, but I will soon.
On a different note, I suggest that you:
A> Get a "NEW" clutch fork and pivot (pretty cheap on fleabay)
AND
B>When you are ready to install
1>Pre-assemble bell housing/clutch fork to the transmission and install it to the engine that way, as it is very easy to knock the clutch fork clip off the ball/pivot (and possibly damaging it) when stabbing the transmission the traditional way.
2>If working by yourself, installation can be aided/eased by threading in 4 lengths of all thread (the longest that your trans tunnel will allow) into the 2 lower bell housing bolt holes on each side and sliding the bell housing/transmission assembly home using them for alignment and help with holding the weight.
C>I think the jury is still out on whether or not to remove your under dash clutch pedal spring. On the one hand, leaving it on reduces the amount of foot pressure needed to push the pedal, after the pedal is depressed 1-2 ". On the other hand, when you push the pedal all the way to the floor, it almost feels as though it almost wants to stay there. It doesn't actually "stick down", per se, just feels a tiny bit un-natural. I rarely find the need to push the pedal to the floor so I appreciate the assistance.
Even with your current gears, you will love your T5, especially with a hydraulic setup.
Happy Motoring,
Gene
After fabbing my own clutch master setup, I must say that the Modern Driveline master cylinder setup is slicker than snot. A tiny bit over priced, but I guess when considering the R&D that must have gone into it, not too bad and I would likely have sprung the $$$ for it if it were available at the time. On the other hand, I do NOT like their slave setup! Where it fastens to the bell housing is a very thin/weak spot, IMHO, and WAY overpriced. I have a different design that uses the bolts that fasten the transmission to the bell housing, similar to DaysCars bracket for the Tremec 3550, TKO 500/600.
DazeCars, For Sale Page
I do not like his bracket listed for the T5, as it bolts to the 2 little, flimsy tabs on the side of the transmission, like many other brand T5 slave kits. I can hook you up with one of my brackets that utilizes a late 80s to early 90s chebbie pickup slave ($35-$55 depending on your source) and all you need to do is plumb it and make you own rod out of 3/8" stainless threaded rod. I don't want this to be construed as a for sale post, so PM me if you'd like me to hook you up. My slave setup is FAR superior to anything currently on the market, I simply haven't had the time or $$$ to put together complete kits for sale, but I will soon.
On a different note, I suggest that you:
A> Get a "NEW" clutch fork and pivot (pretty cheap on fleabay)
AND
B>When you are ready to install
1>Pre-assemble bell housing/clutch fork to the transmission and install it to the engine that way, as it is very easy to knock the clutch fork clip off the ball/pivot (and possibly damaging it) when stabbing the transmission the traditional way.
2>If working by yourself, installation can be aided/eased by threading in 4 lengths of all thread (the longest that your trans tunnel will allow) into the 2 lower bell housing bolt holes on each side and sliding the bell housing/transmission assembly home using them for alignment and help with holding the weight.
C>I think the jury is still out on whether or not to remove your under dash clutch pedal spring. On the one hand, leaving it on reduces the amount of foot pressure needed to push the pedal, after the pedal is depressed 1-2 ". On the other hand, when you push the pedal all the way to the floor, it almost feels as though it almost wants to stay there. It doesn't actually "stick down", per se, just feels a tiny bit un-natural. I rarely find the need to push the pedal to the floor so I appreciate the assistance.
Even with your current gears, you will love your T5, especially with a hydraulic setup.
Happy Motoring,
Gene
Gene, u full of good advice...I have been talking with Bruce @ Modern Driveline and I think I am going to go with that hydraulic setup. And as far as the spring goes, well I have a drawer full of different springs and I can play with that if I want. I am also aware of the different slave brackets and I can fab one of my own up or reinforce the one they sell to me.
I read chris66dad's post on how to fab your own slave setup...and for 200 bucks that's not bad, but I just don't have the time. I'm sure after I get the tranny in the car that I will be posting about "TrueTrac or Trac-Loc" lol...
I read chris66dad's post on how to fab your own slave setup...and for 200 bucks that's not bad, but I just don't have the time. I'm sure after I get the tranny in the car that I will be posting about "TrueTrac or Trac-Loc" lol...
horseballz
10 Year Member
robbz28,
Yeah, I've been told before that I'm full, of something,
but not necessarily "good advice"
. Hey, best of luck on the swap.
Gene
Yeah, I've been told before that I'm full, of something,
but not necessarily "good advice". Hey, best of luck on the swap.Gene
I had the original Non-WC in my '84 rebuilt only because it was numbers matching. Otherwise I would have gone with a WC. I did have the bearing retainer replaced with a steel one and went with a Hurst shifter due to bent parts inside the transmission. I swapped outr my 3.08 gears with 3.45 gears and after driving it, I can say I do like the improvement, and the 3.73 gears would be even more fun!
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