Timing Question

[barthel]

Well, I feel like an idiot for having to ask this, but here goes.

I just replaced my distributor, the old one was Tango Uniform. I got it lined up, rotor set, dropped and locked down. I started the car, and it started and sounded fine.

My car has always been difficult to start, I had always suspected a timing or fuel issue (replacing fuel pump later this week). After it ran for a bit, I shut it off, pulled the sprout connector and started it again to set/verify the base timing. Well I had 2 issues with that. First, it ran like crap with the sprout connector out, second (but more importantly) there's no way to get a timing light into position to shine on the timing mark. I literally can't see it from any angle.

Any ideas?

 

[BlackVert]

you should be able to see it from the passenger's side. it can be trickey, but you should definately be able to get to it. it is on the passenger's side of the crank pulley, at about 10 o'clock if you were looking at the crank pulley from the front.

the problem people have more often is more that the markings are rusted over such that you can no longer see them. on my fairlane, mine had paint on it and it was completely covered. i had to take a piece of sandpaper to it while it was running to clean it up enough to see the markings. then i put a line of white paint on the 10* mark to make it easy to see.

 

[toyman]

After you figure out how to see the timing marks and to get yourself into the ball park with the spout "IN" the reading at idle should be about 23-25*. If it isn't adjust the distributor a bit to get to that point. (I'm suggesting this way if it doesn't idle well enough to adjust the timing when the Spout is pulled.) Then pull the Spout and the timing you want to see is usually between 10-12*. Just adjust the dizzy and lock it in place when done and then confirm the reading again.

 

[revhead347]

The timing mark is a bitch. You kind of have to angle the light in from the front, while you look in from the side.

Kurt

 

[alleymad95GT]

The timing mark is a bitch. You kind of have to angle the light in from the front, while you look in from the side.

Kurt

This is an excellent description of how to see it.

Hold the light in your right hand, look with your left eye.

I would also second the idea of using a white paint marker to mark 10 BTDC...

 

[barthel]

10-4, I'll give it a shot.

I just wasn't sure if there was some kind of trick to it or not. On my Jeep it's easy, not so much on the Mustang.

 

[toyman]

Mine is completely visible. Maybe it's because I have a different HB IDK.

 

[barthel]

Well, I was able to sort of see them. I'll have to put the car on ramps and get underneath it with some sandpaper and paint. We'll see how it goes once I get them marked.

 

[barthel]

Update:

Well, got under the car with sandpaper and paint. Got lucky, the timing marks were RIGHT there. Painted them and proceeded to attempt to time it out.

I'm not sure if I have something in my engine that someone else doesn't, but there was NO way possible to get the timing light onto the marks to be able to see them. After several attempts, I decided I'd had enough.

With the sprout connector out, it was idling like crap. I loosened the distributor and turned it clockwise 'till the idle smoothed out (did it by ear). However, when I plugged the sprout connector back in and started it, it idled like crap again, like it was straining to keep going. Revved nice, but didn't idle so well. So, I loosened the distributor again (with the connector out) and turned it counter clockwise just a bit. Got the idle smoothed out, it was idling just over 500. Plugged the connector back in and started it. Seemed to idle OK and rev OK, so we took it out for a ride. DAMN it was quick, the only thing I noticed was some pinging at WOT, but even with an automatic was chirping the tires in 2nd gear at wide open throttle.

I've got it close (by ear), probably within a degree or two. So now should I move it clockwise or counter clockwise to try to get rid of the ping? I feel like an idiot because of not being able to use the light and do it right, but I'm sort of at a loss right now.

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

I don't know, you must not be looking in the right spot yet because I can see mine even with a blower belt in the way, too.

 

[barthel]

Facing the engine, left side of the crank pulley right?

 

[BlackVert]

yes

 

[barthel]

Yep, I can see it, I just can't get the timing light on it. The only way I can get the light on it is directly from the top, so all I see is the Motorcraft part number going by.

If I'm doing it by ear do i want to advance or retard it to kill the pinging? And, which way is which?

BTW, replaced the distributor with a Richporter Technology OEM unit. It is brand new (not remanufactured) and was only $83 from O'Reilly Auto parts. It looks like a quality unit.

 

[toyman]

Yep, I can see it, I just can't get the timing light on it. The only way I can get the light on it is directly from the top, so all I see is the Motorcraft part number going by.

If I'm doing it by ear do i want to advance or retard it to kill the pinging? And, which way is which?

BTW, replaced the distributor with a Richporter Technology OEM unit. It is brand new (not remanufactured) and was only $83 from O'Reilly Auto parts. It looks like a quality unit.

If all you can see is the part number I'll bet even money the HB has slipped on the inner hub. That would explain why you don't see the timing marks. If you can see any rubber protruding around the hub the balancer has separated and is toast. You can confirm the HB integrity by bringing number one cylinder to TDC. The pointer should be at the "0" mark on the balancer.

 

[barthel]

Where I'm going with this is that I cannot get the timing light ON the indicator to illuminate the marks as they're going by. The only direction I can get the light on the indicator is from directly above, which is "next" to the indicator, not on it. That's where I can see the parts numbers.

Whether the HB slipped or not, i wouldn't know it as I cannot line the light up with the timing marks while the engine is running.

 

[barthel]

Update II:

Well, I drove the car to work today just to see how it did. Noticed a couple of things.

First off, it started RIGHT up this morning, it never does that. Usually it's 10-15 seconds on the starter and furious pumping of the gas pedal to get it to fire. This time was less than a second on the starter.

2: It runs hotter than it used to. The temp gauge would typically be between the N and O in "Normal" on the gauge, today it was running solidly on the R (basically straight up).

3: When I'm at highway speed and I let off the gas, I noticed a slight (really slight) rumble from the exhaust which wasn't there before.

4: It idles about 550RPM's in drive with my foot on the brake, it seems to idle OK but seems a little "lope-y".

I feel like it's close, maybe a degree or two off, but am not 100% sure. Any suggestions?

 

[BlackVert]

it sounds like it is pretty close now ... good news

running hotter probably means it is running leaner. not necessarily a bad thing. but the "rumble" when you let off the gas might also indicate a lean condition. you might try backing the timing off just a tad. if you are unsuccessful getting the light to work.

Where I'm going with this is that I cannot get the timing light ON the indicator to illuminate the marks as they're going by. The only direction I can get the light on the indicator is from directly above, which is "next" to the indicator, not on it. That's where I can see the parts numbers.

Whether the HB slipped or not, i wouldn't know it as I cannot line the light up with the timing marks while the engine is running.

sorry to be sort of dense about this ....

are you saying that the only way to get the light on the mark that you painted while it is running is to point it at the crank from above?

but then you can't see how it lines up with the (stationary) indicator because it is in reality not close enough to the indicator to be able to see it and the indicator? that would indicate that the balancer has "slipped", in which case you need a new balancer asap.

or is it that looking at it from above doesn't allow you to see how it actually lines up because your line of sight does not line up the indicator with the center of the crank?

are you able to shine the light from above, but look from the side?

 

[barthel]

are you saying that the only way to get the light on the mark that you painted while it is running is to point it at the crank from above?

This would be correct. I can see the indicator from above, but that's the only angle I can get the timing light on it as well. From that angle, it's impossible to see if I'm off or not as the light does not illuminate the stationary indicator well enough to see what the timing is. I know I'm close as I can see the top of the HB with the light and it illuminates the part number on the HB, which is at the end of the timing mark scale.

I've tried checking it from the side with the light above, not good enough to see. I may have to darken up the garage.

So if I need to back it off a bit, I should "retard" it, moving the distributor clockwise, correct?

By the way, I realize that you guys can't see or hear what I can and are essentially trying to help me while blind. I really appreciate it.

 

[BlackVert]

yes, by "backing it off", i meant retard it a tad.

 

[barthel]

Good deal! I'll give it a shot and report back.