Post-cam job Valvetrain noise....help

[gsxr750rider]

Alright my buddy has a 2001 GT mustang which we just did a cam job in. We installed Stage 2 Comp cams with all necessary supporting mods, including: upgraded Comp valve springs, Comp retainers, TrickFlow Lifters, Comp cams adjustable cam gears, new timing chains, and new tensioners. (Rockers still stock because it was only a stage 2 cam, so the stock ones suffice). As far as we are concerned, we did the job in the right order, torqued every bolt to spec, lubed every necessary part, did an oil change pre-startup, and put everything back together correctly.

When we went to start the car for the first time after the job, it turned over and started almost immediately. The problem we encountered is this, however: once started, a loud ticking noise immediately started coming from the passenger side of the car, very audible from the engine bay but not from the back of the car. It ticks with the RPM of the car, AKA gets faster as RPM increases. It is definitely coming from the valvetrain, but we are out of ideas as to what it could be. BTW, we started the car, let it idle until warm, brought it to 3000 RPMs for a minute, shut the car off, let it cool, and started it again. (This is the manufacturer's recommended procedure for removing lifter tick after reassembly, which we thought it was)

Does anyone have any solid idea as to what the noise is and how to go about getting rid of it?

 

[midnightdriver]

First a 2001 does not have lifters or rockers, the engine is a SOHC which means it have lash adjusters and cam followers.

1. So for the Trickflow lash adjusters, did you sock them for a couple of hours in engine oil before install?

2. Did you degree the cams? If not, well that tick could be PTV contact, which can be likely with a Stage 2 comp.

 

[trinity_gt]

Can you pull the passenger-side valve cover and inspect each valve for a loose HLA (i.e. has not pumped up)? Or even start it to identify which cylinder is making the noise?

Did you remove the spark plugs during this job and if so, did you torque them all to spec on re-installation?

 

[Deleted member 38176]

Sounds like a plug is loose. I just blew a plug out of my head and it sounded similar to what is being described....

 

[gsxr750rider]

First a 2001 does not have lifters or rockers, the engine is a SOHC which means it have lash adjusters and cam followers.

1. So for the Trickflow lash adjusters, did you sock them for a couple of hours in engine oil before install?

2. Did you degree the cams? If not, well that tick could be PTV contact, which can be likely with a Stage 2 comp.

My bad for incorrect terminology. At the start of the project I was calling them lash adjusters, but my buddy somehow got me saying lifters. We did not pre-soak the lash adjusters, only because they came presoaked, which was confirmed by a tech at summit racing that they did not need to be soaked. (I still wanted to soak them anyway but my buddy was impatient, plus the tech at Summit said it wasnt necessary because they were already primed).

And no we did not degree the cams; we left them at exactly 0 degrees. And by PTV you mean piston to valve contact? I've got a lot of experience with basic car **** but this was our biggest job we've done to date, so I'm still a bit of a newbie with this stuff.

Assuming those two factors are the problems, would it be possible to fix it by removing the lash adjusters, resoaking them, and degreeing the cams, or do parts need to be replaced now?

 

[gsxr750rider]

Can you pull the passenger-side valve cover and inspect each valve for a loose HLA (i.e. has not pumped up)? Or even start it to identify which cylinder is making the noise?

Did you remove the spark plugs during this job and if so, did you torque them all to spec on re-installation?

It sounds like it's coming from more than one cylinder when running. Plugs were removed and I believed torqued to spec upon reinstallation. Will check to confirm

 

[midnightdriver]

My bad for incorrect terminology. At the start of the project I was calling them lash adjusters, but my buddy somehow got me saying lifters. We did not pre-soak the lash adjusters, only because they came presoaked, which was confirmed by a tech at summit racing that they did not need to be soaked. (I still wanted to soak them anyway but my buddy was impatient, plus the tech at Summit said it wasnt necessary because they were already primed).

And no we did not degree the cams; we left them at exactly 0 degrees. And by PTV you mean piston to valve contact? I've got a lot of experience with basic car **** but this was our biggest job we've done to date, so I'm still a bit of a newbie with this stuff.

Assuming those two factors are the problems, would it be possible to fix it by removing the lash adjusters, resoaking them, and degreeing the cams, or do parts need to be replaced now?

I am not the top end guru here, but I am pretty sure you won't have to remove the lash adjusters again once they have been installed. IIRC the reason people presoak them is to help initial start up priming (could be wrong though, just a guess).

As to degreeing the cams, here is a basic How too, it should not really be tackled if you are unsure of your skills or rushed as if done improperly you get PTV (piston to valve contact) and can ruin you top end.

ModularHeadShop Articles on Cam degree

 

[gsxr750rider]

I am not the top end guru here, but I am pretty sure you won't have to remove the lash adjusters again once they have been installed. IIRC the reason people presoak them is to help initial start up priming (could be wrong though, just a guess).

As to degreeing the cams, here is a basic How too, it should not really be tackled if you are unsure of your skills or rushed as if done improperly you get PTV (piston to valve contact) and can ruin you top end.

ModularHeadShop Articles on Cam degree

Ok thanks a lot man. The only question I have is how likely is it that there is PTV contact, considering the car can run, idle, and rev with no problem? Wouldnt that cause a bent valve, thus destroying the top end?

 

[gsxr750rider]

bump

 

[trinity_gt]

I think it's possible for the pistons to kiss the valves without bending anything but the margin between bending stuff and not is very, very tight. Certainly this condition is no good for anything, including the valve stems, the guides, the followers etc.

The fact that it's coming from multiple cylinders and the fact that you're running Stg 2 cams and didn't degree them almost certainly points to PTV.

 

[1987stangman]

I think it's possible for the pistons to kiss the valves without bending anything but the margin between bending stuff and not is very, very tight. Certainly this condition is no good for anything, including the valve stems, the guides, the followers etc.

The fact that it's coming from multiple cylinders and the fact that you're running Stg 2 cams and didn't degree them almost certainly points to PTV.

It is very possible for that to happen, in fact my mother has a 98' Ranger 3.0L V6 that kept complaining to me that she was hearing a pinging sound when driving. The trucks mine now and to make a long story short when I pulled the heads I found that there was an exh valve that was PTV but it was not enough to bend the valve or push rod. In my case tho the reason for this was the valve seat moved making the valve not seat.

 

[joshjwc9]

It is very possible for that to happen, in fact my mother has a 98' Ranger 3.0L V6 that kept complaining to me that she was hearing a pinging sound when driving. The trucks mine now and to make a long story short when I pulled the heads I found that there was an exh valve that was PTV but it was not enough to bend the valve or push rod. In my case tho the reason for this was the valve seat moved making the valve not seat.

Which could have been caused by a number of things. It is possible to happen, but when not degreeing in cams, there is a very likely issue that PTV may have happening. Not saying for sure until you take the valvecovers off (in the least), and possibly the head.

In this case, what camshaft brand is it? If they were HiTech's I'd almost certainly say you have PTV and will have some broken parts in the near future in your valvetrain.

 

[Dark04GT]

Which could have been caused by a number of things. It is possible to happen, but when not degreeing in cams, there is a very likely issue that PTV may have happening. Not saying for sure until you take the valvecovers off (in the least), and possibly the head.

In this case, what camshaft brand is it? If they were HiTech's I'd almost certainly say you have PTV and will have some broken parts in the near future in your valvetrain.

He said in his OP that they were comp stage 2's.... which are notorious for PTV. Degreeing is a must with those cams.

 

[joshjwc9]

Aha! My reading comprehension really sucks today. I thought I read Comp Cams everything except for the camshafts, lol.

 

[gsxr750rider]

I think it's possible for the pistons to kiss the valves without bending anything but the margin between bending stuff and not is very, very tight. Certainly this condition is no good for anything, including the valve stems, the guides, the followers etc.

The fact that it's coming from multiple cylinders and the fact that you're running Stg 2 cams and didn't degree them almost certainly points to PTV.

Hmm alright thanks guys. So now that raises a new question, just for discussion purposes: is it possible at this point to degree the cams and solve the problem? Or is the damage done and are valves now needed? (I'm aware this might only be answered by taking it apart; again just for discussion purposes)

Also, the instructions that came with the cams said at the end that degreeing was not entirely necessary, just helpful for the most hp and tq gains. Why would Cams even suggest this if there was any risk in PTV contact from not degreeing them?

 

[N8Dogg98]

The issue is that the stock ford cam gears can be off by 5* either way, then you also consider that the purchased Cams may be off by 3* either way and you're looking at potentially 8* offset. That is why it is imperative to degree your cams when installing them.

I don't have the tools to do it and that's why when I bought cams I paid MHS to degree them and include cam gears and adjustable crank gears to ensure a proper install. It's even more important with a PI car too because you don't have the generous PTV clearance like you do with NPI heads.

 

[97predator]

ptv. those need to be degreed and installed on (i think) a 113 or 111 centerline.