So here is what I have done so far to the car. I installed the Trick Flow Track Heat H/C/I, 24 lb injectors, 75mm throttle body, MAF housing calibrated to 24 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, and a bama chip. I have checked the timing more than enough, as well as set fuel pressure to 39.5 lbs as requested by bama tuning. I still have a backfire condition on the car and it runs very sluggish and rough, and some time has a surging idle. I have damn near tried everything and I am begging for some help. I am pulling my hair out, all this money into the car and I still cant drive it.
Im about to give up on backfire!!
- Thread starter ckzimmerly
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Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs
Revised 3-Jun-2011. Removed the link to BATAuto.com and troublecodes.net instructions on codes and how to dump them. Post the codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Revised 3-Jun-2011. Removed the link to BATAuto.com and troublecodes.net instructions on codes and how to dump them. Post the codes you get and I will post 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes.
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems
Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Alternate methods:
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see Actron® for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.
Or for a nicer scanner see Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader (3145) – It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
Or for a nicer scanner see http://www.midwayautosupply.com/p-7208-equus-digital-ford-code-reader-3145.aspx– It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $30.
BlackGT89
Member
A backfire (out the intake) is usually caused by a lean mixture condition, and once you have a backfire it's likely it could have blown off vacuum lines and plugs in various places. Check all of your vacuum lines (don't forget the ones under the upper intake). You will probably have to take the upper off to get to those so while you have the way cleared you might as well re-torque the bolts on the lower intake to specs. Check the gasket between the upper and lower and replace if needed. If you still get backfires squirt carb cleaner near the gasket edges on the intake and see if the motor speeds up.
If the backfire is through the exhaust (more of a misfire) consider replacing the plug wires if it's been a while. Sometimes you can start the car outside at night in the pitch black and see the sparks jumping if your wires are bad. Give your eyes time to adjust to the darkness and make sure you don't get your hands or clothing in the moving parts of the engine.
If the backfire is through the exhaust (more of a misfire) consider replacing the plug wires if it's been a while. Sometimes you can start the car outside at night in the pitch black and see the sparks jumping if your wires are bad. Give your eyes time to adjust to the darkness and make sure you don't get your hands or clothing in the moving parts of the engine.
Backfiring out the intake is either a valve stuck open or a lean mixture or spark plug wire(s) connected to the wrong cylinder(s). Check compression on all cylinders and then look for vacuum hoses loose, cracked, or misconnected. Check the line for the vapor recirculation system – it is easy to knock loose and not see it when you connect the air pump plumbing. If the vacuum line for the EGR valve and the air pump are cross connected, some very strange things can happen. Check the mass air flow electrical connection and see that it is tight, the same goes for the fuel injection wiring harness connectors up on top of the manifold near the firewall.
Sticking valves: If a intake valve is bent, has a bad spring or is misadjusted, the engine will sometimes backfire through the intake. Use a vacuum gauge connected to any convenient spot on the intake manifold. Run the engine at 1000 RPM & look for 18-21 inches of vacuum with a steady needle. A problem intake valve will make the vacuum gauge needle sweep 5-10 inches.
Lean fuel mixture breaks out into several sub categories:
A.). Vacuum leaks
B.) Air entering the intake without passing through the MAF on Mass Air cars (89-95 models).
C.) Failure of the MAF, BAP/MAP (Baro or Manifold Air Pressure, same sensor, different name), ACT (air charge temp), or ECT (engine coolant temp). These should set a code in the computer.
D.) Leaking exhaust gases from EGR valve at WOT or EGR opening when it should not be open.
E.) Poor fuel delivery due to bad fuel pump, clogged filter or bad fuel pump wiring. Look for low pressure or fluctuating pressure. Standard injector pressure is 39 PSI at idle, with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator and capped.
F.) Clogged fuel injectors.- see the cylinder balance test below
H.) Fuel injector wiring problems causing injector not to deliver rated flow.
I.) Computer problems: (computer problems are not common like sensor problems)
J.). ROM has bad data in fuel or timing table. This should also set a code in the computer.
K.) Failure of one or more of the computer's driver transistors for the fuel injectors. No code set on this one. Use a noid test light to test the injector wiring & injector drivers,
L.) MAF calibration off or mismatched to injectors.
M.) ACT or ECT bad. Sometimes the sensors will be off calibration, but not bad enough to set a code. If they falsely read too high a temp, the engine will back off fuel delivery.
Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...
Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. Spay everything with anything you have, and you won't find the leak...
Sticking valves: If a intake valve is bent, has a bad spring or is misadjusted, the engine will sometimes backfire through the intake. Use a vacuum gauge connected to any convenient spot on the intake manifold. Run the engine at 1000 RPM & look for 18-21 inches of vacuum with a steady needle. A problem intake valve will make the vacuum gauge needle sweep 5-10 inches.
Lean fuel mixture breaks out into several sub categories:
A.). Vacuum leaks
B.) Air entering the intake without passing through the MAF on Mass Air cars (89-95 models).
C.) Failure of the MAF, BAP/MAP (Baro or Manifold Air Pressure, same sensor, different name), ACT (air charge temp), or ECT (engine coolant temp). These should set a code in the computer.
D.) Leaking exhaust gases from EGR valve at WOT or EGR opening when it should not be open.
E.) Poor fuel delivery due to bad fuel pump, clogged filter or bad fuel pump wiring. Look for low pressure or fluctuating pressure. Standard injector pressure is 39 PSI at idle, with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator and capped.
F.) Clogged fuel injectors.- see the cylinder balance test below
H.) Fuel injector wiring problems causing injector not to deliver rated flow.
I.) Computer problems: (computer problems are not common like sensor problems)
J.). ROM has bad data in fuel or timing table. This should also set a code in the computer.
K.) Failure of one or more of the computer's driver transistors for the fuel injectors. No code set on this one. Use a noid test light to test the injector wiring & injector drivers,
L.) MAF calibration off or mismatched to injectors.
M.) ACT or ECT bad. Sometimes the sensors will be off calibration, but not bad enough to set a code. If they falsely read too high a temp, the engine will back off fuel delivery.
Cylinder balance test:
Warm the car's engine up to normal operating temperature. Use a jumper wire or paper clip to put the computer into test mode. Start the engine and let it go through the normal diagnostic tests, then quickly press the throttle to the floor. The engine RPM should exceed 2500 RPM's for a brief second. The engine RPM's will increase to about 1450-1600 RPM and hold steady. The engine will shut off power to each injector, one at a time. When it has sequenced through all 8 injectors, it will flash 9 for everything OK, or the number of the failing cylinder such as 2 for cylinder #2. Quickly pressing the throttle again up to 2500 RPM’s will cause the test to re-run with smaller qualifying figures. Do it a third time, and if the same cylinder shows up, the cylinder is weak and isn’t putting out power like it should. See the Chilton’s Shop manual for the complete test procedure
Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.
Dumping the Engine Running codes: The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.
Here's the link to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.
See Troublcodes.net Trouble Codes OBD & OBD2 Trouble Codes and Technical info & Tool Store. By BAT Auto Technical
If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.
The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.
WARNING!!! There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.
What to expect:
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems.
Codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.
Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.
Vacuum leak due to slipped lower intake manifold gasket...
Ask Nicoleb3x3 about the intake gasket that slipped out of place and caused idle and vacuum leak problems that could not be seen or found by external examination. Spay everything with anything you have, and you won't find the leak...
Stever89
5 Year Member
AMChrisRose
Member
Hey Craig,
I have the Bama team looking at your tunes to make sure that it's not related to a lean condition on our end. I'll have them get in contact with you and see if they can help diagnose the problem and we can go from there!
Chris
I have the Bama team looking at your tunes to make sure that it's not related to a lean condition on our end. I'll have them get in contact with you and see if they can help diagnose the problem and we can go from there!
Chris
Chris
Thank you for doing that... I am running codes only that are related to the EGR valave and smog pump being removed. I do noot see any codes related to lean condition or anything else. I have set timing to 10 BTDC and 30.5 lbs of fuel pressure pure Bama recommendations. Im not sure what else to try??
Thank you for doing that... I am running codes only that are related to the EGR valave and smog pump being removed. I do noot see any codes related to lean condition or anything else. I have set timing to 10 BTDC and 30.5 lbs of fuel pressure pure Bama recommendations. Im not sure what else to try??
And people wonder why I tell them not to remove the smog gear. When you start taking things off, know exactly what it is that they do. Not only that, but almost every time something gets knocked loose, out of adjustment or the connection disturbed. Somewhere you have a vacuum leak or a sticking valve if you have an intake backfire. If you have an exhaust backfire from a leaking injector, the cylinder balance test will most likely isolate the bad injector for you.
Just for review:
Check fuel pressure:
The local auto parts store may rent or loan a fuel pressure test gauge if you don't have one.
Disconnect vacuum line and check it for evidence of fuel present on the line. If you find fuel, the fuel pressure regulator has failed. Cap the vacuum line and stow it out of the way.
Connect fuel pressure test gauge to Schrader port located just behind the alternator.
Turn the ignition switch on & start the engine. Observe the pressure : you should see 37-41 PSI at idle.
Turn the ignition off, reconnect the vacuum line and disconnect the fuel pressure test gauge. Watch out for squirting gas when you do this.
So I found a couple of vacuum leaks and fixed them. the car is running better now. There is still some hesitation on asseleration and a small misfire from the exhaust now. Also the car is running hot. When I did the upgrades I added an aluminum radiator and a 160 thermostat. Any additional help would be appreciated. Also with the chip the Race tune runs much worse than the performance tune and street tune. I feel that I almost have the thing ready to go....
BlackGT89
Member
Sounds like you are making some progress. It sure sounds like the rest might be ignition. Consider new plug wires and have your TFI module tested. If that doesn't do it, check your distributor for wobble and consider replacing the PIP sensor in the distributor (or maybe get a new distributor). Just a few more possibilities.
this prob
i just built a fresh gt40p motor with ported heads with A E303 cam with a 75mm tb and a 76mm mass air and 24 lb injector i run 35 to 40 psi on the rail dont run right i haft to run 50 to 55 psi to get it to run right so try to up the fuel pressure see may be you need bigger injector like i do
i just built a fresh gt40p motor with ported heads with A E303 cam with a 75mm tb and a 76mm mass air and 24 lb injector i run 35 to 40 psi on the rail dont run right i haft to run 50 to 55 psi to get it to run right so try to up the fuel pressure see may be you need bigger injector like i do
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