Help,Cooling Issues

[rabidscoobie]

Help,Cooling Issues-RESOLVED

First off this issue isnt my mach,its the wifes 2001 Taurus FlexFuel.

The problem was about 2 weeks back it started to run hot since it was low on coolant from a busted coolant tube that goes to the heater core connections.I replaced that,flushed the system and all seemed fine.

About a week ago I checked the coolant level and thought it was a bit low so since I have been watching it every couple days and its loosing coolant.Its not leaking,its leaking after the car warms up from the rad cap once it exceeds the 16psi cap.Water has a brown look to and sometimes looks foamy.There doesnt appear to be any oil/water mixture present.

I asked someone that knows cars and is suggesting a head gasket.I have read that if thats the case some ways of telling,1. on a cold start immediatly remove the cap,if it hisses its the head.It does NOT hiss.Wouldnt I see it bubble if so?Are the some other simple tests to run.

I'm most likely gonna pay to have it looked at instead of just throwing cash at it,bt any suggestions is appreciated.


Quick update:I thought maybe it might have some trapped air,dunno if it could cause the above issues or not.So i jacked the front up to elevate the rad and removed the rad cap and let the car idle to operating temp.It then began to bubble,then pushed the water out in short intervals,then it stopped doing both until the car heated more the water just purged out,Im guessing just from the normal pressure and heat.

 

[BULLITT5228]

Any smoke coming from the exhaust?? How does the oil look?? Is it milky color? Is the oil level over the full mark on the dipstick? Pull a few spark plugs, how do they look? Are they wet? Just a few checks you can do...

 

[rabidscoobie]

Thx.

Not seeing any smoke,oil looks good, and oil level is where it should be.

I havn't pulled any plugs yet,might do that this afternoon.I tried using a block leak tool to check for combustion gasses in the rad tank by following the directions but with the rad cap off it just kept pushing the water out into the tester.

The directions say that the car needs to be warm and running for the test but anyone know if I just let it warm up a bit then shut the motor off then test it immediately if it will work.The test I did yesterday turned yellow which would be positive for gasses,but I need to redo the test and try for better results.

The car seems to be running fine,its just getting to much pressure then poppin the cap loose and pushing coolant out.

 

[wmburns]

FWIIW, The Taurus motor appears to be self purging. There are no special coolant re-fill instructions. So air trapped inside the motor is unlikely to be the cause.

I'm assuming that the cooling fan has been confirmed to work. The Taurus has a 2 speed fan with separate HS and LS relays.

I'm assuming that the motor is overheating and the pressure is high and venting from the system.

Is the radiator clean on the inside and out? Has the T-stat been replaced?

Have you checked the water pump bearing?

Good idea using the combustion gasses test. More information may help other guys reading this post.

A cooling pressure test may also provide additional information.

OBTW, if it's still pushing cooling out after several heat/cool cycles, this is not a good sign.


>>Taurus coolant re-filling procedure
1-Install the front splash shield.
2-Lower the vehicle.
3-Fill the degas bottle with the correct engine coolant mixture.
4-Install the pressure relief cap.
5-Move the temperature blend selector to the full warm position.

WARNING: Do not stand in line with or near the engine cooling fan blade when revving the engine.

6-Run the engine until it reaches operating temperature.
7-Add the correct coolant mixture to the degas bottle until the coolant level is between the COOLANT FILL LEVEL marks.
8-Turn off the engine and allow the cooling system to cool. Recheck the coolant level and fill the cooling system to the FULL mark on the degas bottle.

WARNING: Do not stand in line with or near the engine cooling fan blade when revving the engine.

9-Repeat Steps 3 through 8 until the reservoir level is OK.

 

[rabidscoobie]

WMburns,thx for all the info.

I guess i forgot to mention that around Dec-Jan I replaced the water pump and t-stat.Then 2 weeks back with that metal tubing line broke I flushed the coolant system and refilled just as your previous post.

I did some more testing today and this is what I jotted down:

1.cap off cold start to near operating temp about 5 mins(165-170 degres)no bubbles or coolant being pushed from the degas bottle.

2.Needle showing normal operating temp(around 185) after about 10mins of running.No bubbles or coolant being purged.I also redid the test the coolant test and Im not sure how to determine the results,its not yellow or blue,it turned what appears to be clear.did the test again and same results.test was done between 170-190ish.

3.About 15mins later it temped at 200,I then let it run for about 2 more mins then it started purging coolant.

I thought about just pulling the t-stat and see what happens.I believe its just running to hot...?? then purging? Does this sound more like a cooling issue or possible exhaust gas into the coolant?

Thank you again for all and any help.


Edit: Also yes the fans appear to be working,both are on and running.

 

[wmburns]

WOW based on the above, IMO it doesn't look good.

Bubbles in coolant = bad

 

[rabidscoobie]

WOW based on the above, IMO it doesn't look good.

Bubbles in coolant = bad

No bubbles this time,but after the temp went over 200ish then it was like a volcano purging coolant out of the bottle.
Sound like a possible head gasket?

Also the test fluid I got isnt really all that blue,its really light.Is this correct,Ive read it has a short shelf life.

It looks nothing like in this video:
YouTube - ‪How to test head gasket failure using an antifreeze HC Tester‬‏

 

[wmburns]

Other causes for motor overheating:

blocked exhaust
Blocked/clogged radiator
Incorrect anti-freeze mix

Have you confirmed that the T-stat is opening? Confirm coolant flow in the top radiator hose.

A 50% anti-freeze mix should have a boiling point of 225 F. However, you report boiling at just over 200 degrees F. Under pressure, the boiling point will rise above that level. Are you sure the anti-freeze percent is correct?

If you spay water on the radiator, are you able to keep it from overheating?

How have you confirmed the radiator is not clogged on the inside? Are all of the air dams in place?

 

[rabidscoobie]

All air dams are in place.When I flushed the system the rad seemed to be free flowing unless Im missing something.

Ok just got done doing a few other troubleshoots and I believe I have narrowed it down.

A few days back I had checked the fans and they were both working.But a buddy reminded me about how the fans are suppose to work.When I had checked them the AC was running,but the entire time I have been troubleshooting I had it off.

Well with it off the t-stat opens around 185,you can see the level rise and drop when this happens.Then the temp continues to near 200 and neither fan has come.I would think that by 200 1 fan should have started.Well guess what happens just past 200....purges.

I then immediately turn on ac and run water over the rad and within seconds its back to norm and holds around 185-190.

I checked the fan relay which appears to be a giant blade fuse and that worked,so I'm thinking temp sending unit or similar sensor for the fans,just cant think of the name....can anyone else?


Thank you again for the help.Gonna replace that sensor and give updates.

 

[wmburns]

If this were my car, I would check the fuses and the relays that control the fan. The Taurus also uses a ballast resister to control the Low speed fan.

The Taurus also has an unusal engine cooling fan brake relay. This makes testing the fans somewhat different than a Mustang.

A review of the wiring diagrams reveals several spots that the relays can be actived for testing. For example. the LG/VT wire on the HS relay can be grounded and the HS fan should kick on.

The LB wire on the LS fan relay will cause the LS fan to run. There should be an obvious difference between the fan speeds.

Once the fans have been confirmed operational, then you will know if this is a sensor issue or a fan issue.

 

[rabidscoobie]

Relays appear to be good.

I have a felling it might be the fan resistor.The fans will never come on without the ac running.

1.AC off,car heats to 201 degrees and starts purging with no cap on.

2.Start ac and temp drops to around 190 and Im guessing both fans are running at high speed only.Which is why Im thing resistor,cause its the same when the ac blower resistor dies,you only get high speed on the blower...just logical thinking could be completely wrong tho.

Soon as I learn to test a resistor with a voltmeter Ill know.

 

[rabidscoobie]

Quick question,

Should I be able to shake the degas bottle with the cap on and get coolant to come out from the under the cap,I did this with the old and new cap and they both do that.

I let the car run for awhile with the cap on and didnt get a purge but the fan never kicked on either.I replace the CTS.The t-stat housing didnt go above 195-197.Im not sure what the normal temp should be or when the fans are suppose to kick on.

 

[rabidscoobie]

I wanna thank you for all the help burns.It looks like its fixed.

Appears to have been the CTS.With new one in the fans kick on at 202 until it drops to about 190-195.

Thank you again,
Mark.

 

[rabidscoobie]

I got another quick question.

Should I be able to shake the expansion tank with the cap on tight and still be able to get coolant from under the cap,even after cooldown? I even changed the cap and it still does that.I would think its not but Im not sure.

Thx again.

 

[rabidscoobie]

Ok update,its still not fixed.

recap:
-Tstat and water pump replaced around January.
-Coolant temp sensor replaced.
-Coolant system flushed at shop using a machine.
-Replaced the expansion tank since it was looking kinda bad.

-Also took it in to have it looked at,and they said that they couldnt find anything wrong at all other than needed a flush bad.When I dropped it off they assumed it was head gasket,but said it is not.

It looks that the only time it pushes coolant out of the expansion tank cap is with HWY driving,its driven about 20miles one way daily.It doesnt appear to do this during in town driving.

Also the heater isnt heating properly.I can remove the heater core hoses and flush the core out and the car will have heat for about a week then it doesnt heat after that.

After the recent flush it did not lose any coolant at all for about a week and now its back to doing it.Seeing as the only thing I havent replaced is the radiator,does it sound like it has failed or is badly blocked?
Far as I know this is the original rad,and before I had it flushed it was nasty brown.

I am so lost right now as to what the issue is.

 

[wmburns]

In my experience, a car that slowly overheats while highway driving but otherwise runs OK is either a clogged radiator or blocked exhaust.

The fact that the heater doesn't work tells me there is AIR in the system. This is an important symptom and should not be ignored!

Since is runs fine for awhile and then quits, this implies that air is somehow getting into the system. Once air is trapped inside the motor, the air blocks the flow of coolant.

If it's air, we need to find out WHERE it's coming from. Two possible sources come to mind. Head gasket or bad water pump bearings.

Since the head gaskets is reported OK, one would think bad water pump bearings allowing air to be sucked in during cool down. However, since the water pump has been replaced, this seems less likely.

It seems to me that a coolant pressure test is in order. This will prove one way or the other if the system is holding pressure.

How were the head gaskets ruled out? Has a combustion by-product test been done on the coolant?

So based on the large number of parts replaced, this leaves clogged radiator or block exhaust as possible front runners. However, from the symptoms, this is not a sure bet.

Note, radiator flushing does not always restore the radiator to full health. Some forms of corrosion can't be cleaned with a simple chemical/mechanical flush.

Check the exhaust for blockage. How's the car's gas mileage? Throttle response?

 

[rabidscoobie]

-Car appears to be running as it always has,runs good,no hesitation and good throttle response.I have had cars get a blocked cat-converter and this doesnt act ansd the motor doesnt sound like its clogged.

-Gas mileage seems to be the same.She only drives it to work and has been using a tank a gas a week.So I havnt noticed and increase in gas usage.

-I asked the shop if they were going to be performing an exhaust gas check and they told me yes that they suspect head gasket.I also used a block leak tool with the blue chemical,the test liquid didnt stay blue but it didnt turn yellow...it went clear.But I think the chem may have been out-dated and no one else in town had any so that's also the reason I took it in.

As for the heater that stops working.I can remove both heater hoses and use a water hose with a twist nozzle type sprayer and use that to flush/back flush the heater core and it will work fine for about a week.The Taurus also has a heater core bypass hose in case the heater core gets clogged.

The dummy temp gauge always shows normal driving temp,never shows hot,but I also know that the gauge really only shows hot if the car has already over-heated.

Thank you again.

EDIT:I also forgot that back around last Nov.there is a water hose nipple that comes out of the lower intake,just near the t-stat housing that had rusted out.I had fixed this by removing the pressed in nipple then taping it and used brass fitting threaded in to be able to re-attach the coolant line instead of replaced the lower intake.

Then as I stated I also had the metal coolant line that runs to the heater core rust out in June.

 

[rabidscoobie]

Just to add.She tells me it never shows to overheat.
Today after she got home I immediately took it out and ran it hard for less than 5 mins and the temp gauge jumped almost immediately to "H".I poped the hood and its is definitely steaming from the expansion cap.

Edit:I let it idle while reving around 2000rpm's and it still would come out cap.
Guess I'll take it to a rad shop and get them to test for combustion gas.If that turns out then I might just replace the rad.

 

[rabidscoobie]

Well I replaced the radiator,it was really nasty inside...chunks coming out.But it still has not fixed my issue.

I'm really starting to think its the head gasket, even tho one shop said no and the block leak test I did didnt turn yellow.I just dont see what else it can be now.

 

[wmburns]

So no difference at all with the new radiator?

The exhaust isn't clogged right?

Have you run a compreesion test?

If having a Ford Service manual would be useful, I may be able to help. PM if interested.